Not really that sensitive about the public service Yabby, only about people who make generalisations about things they know little about. Sorry if I did not see the smiley but my beef ('scuse the pun) was more with the assumptions being made about people and/or their experiences and of whom you have never met. :)

Yes was a bit harsh on you yabby, I can however talk you.
Try from my true belief in fair go mate talking to Rechtub or shudder hasbeen.
Look I have had a very long work life 13 to 66 nearly and a lot of jobs.
Some times for blokes just like you.
Some times things got a bit hard and I willingly got paid 8 hours for ten hour days.
Never went home without being warn out.
And never wanted to live like the boss, a timber shanty would have done.
hasbeen puts the boot in ugly stuff, but I never ever left any job without being asked to stay.
Should have stayed in some earlier ones, but wanting to learn and see this country drove me.
Mate a good boss is hard to beat so is a good worker, do not judge country town Australia on miners wages.
This near coastal country village sees pay packets a quarter of that.
And the bustling coastal town charges 5 to 8 dollars for coffee on weekends or any time tourists are about.
I have a feeling Rechtub is not as bad as his words, but the description fits butcher, you seem to have no idea about life as it is,vegetarian sausages any one?

Pelican, you should know by now that I think highly of you. I've
said before that I think you would make great marriage material
if single and most likely be honest, trustworthy and reliable, unlike the bunch of dumb bimbos that I have associated with :)

But this:

*The IR laws here are not the problem in the big picture.*

I remind you that 4 out of 5 small businesses shut down in the
first five years, for its alot tougher out there then many a dreamer
might think. The IR laws have swung the pendulum even further in
the direction of the employee and stuff the businesses struggling to
survive.

People commonly have trouble relating to another's perspective and
you have clearly never been in a position where you've got your house
on the line for your business, along comes a black swan, things
change, next thing you lose it due to the termination payments that
you are forced to pay, when it closes and employees have their
hands out. They of course, can start another job tomorrow, not
a care in the world.

Right now we have more nails being nailed into the coffin and
when things get rough and businesses close, they will just be
enough to make sure it stays shut. Then there will be shouting
from the rooftops wondering where the jobs are.

Pelican>>Why is your experience, which is not in hospitality, any more valid than a person who has spent some years in the hospitality industry in established businesses and new ventures?

I am assuming you are refering to yourself here.

Either that was a long time ago, or, you simply don't get it. IR laws have all but killed this industry. Now if you were experienced, you would know that.

Been to the local cafe on a sunday lately. All but Gone are th senir staff, replaced by juniors who have little knowledge and little regard for customer service. Well done Julia!

There is an interesting article in the fin review (weekend addition) about just how tough the hospitality game is. A good read that should change your point of view. Unless of cause you just wish to argue for the sake of it!

Belly>>Question bloke,If I worked for you, worked my guts out as I proudly did in any job, owned nothing at the start.
would my work earn me as much as yours did you?
Ir reward for effort only for some?

This about sums you up mate. Share in the rewards, but without the risk. What more can I say, you have already said it!

Rechtub can I ask this? why do you come here?
It is apparent you only read some of the comments.
To understand, to get the true direction of any thread,you should read then contribute.
You do not.
Silly in the extreme to say that industry is failing, here coffee and a quick snack shops are booming.
A whole area has come to life around coffee.
Sorry but you want a world I would die fighting against, both you and yabby seem to call for better income for your selves and have no thought for well over half of this country those who have only their work to sell.
I waste my time , you have no idea how bad lower wages would be for your business and our country your self interest is blindness.

Belly, I am afraid old mate that it is you who has no idea.

Coffee shops, cafes, bars and restaurants are popping up everywhere, but, all this is being driven by the likes of 'master chef' and shows like that.

The reality is that while they are all booming in your mind, the owners are actually working for less than the workers in most cases.

The whole industry is being fueled by the 'buzz' of owning your own cafe.

I am starting the thread about 'surcharges'. In invite you, along with your labor friends to come along. It will be very interesting to see your points of view on this one.

In the mean time, this industry has a submission to fair work Aust about IR laws and, if nothing or little changes you may well see many closures. Watch this space.