Banjo. "In other threads you have supported humans induced climate change and no you say climate is controlled by the sun." Not so.I have never dealt in absolutes in regards to man's affect on climate.

The IPCC did not include the influence of the sun in its' studies.NASA now admits that the radiant energy during Sun spot activity does increase from 1.36 watts per sq m to 1.4 watts per sq m.This is an increase of 2.9% in total energy.Is this not enough to raise global temps? Why have temps fallen since 2007 when we have expodential increases in CO2 by China and India?

I have always argued that CO2 is not the monster we all claim.It is a warming gas but is a very small part of our atmosphere.I have not supported your assertion that I said it is good that humans are changing climate.I have joked that we may have to burn more carbon to stop an ice age.There is not enough Carbon on the planet to stop an ice age.A scientist told me recently that if all the carbon on the planet was burned ,global temps would increase by 2 deg C.I have always believed that the Sun is an major influence and the fact this system is too complex for fools like Al Gore to say the science is settled.

Yes; both the major parties and a fair % of the Greens are controlled by large corporate interests.Why does not Bob Brown support the BDS against Israel for the theft of Palistinian land and their oppression?

Banjo,yes I do apologise for assuming your comments at Belly,were levelled at me.

Belly, Pericles and others call me a conspiracy theorist.I deal in scientific facts not theory.Ken O'keefe posted on youtube a cartoon which to my dismay I cannot recover.In short is was always thus.A farmer and his sheep dog were rounding up an flock of sheep.Trevor the thinking sheep stood aside from the flock trembling in fear.The flock shouted in unison to Trevor,"You are a nut job conspiracy theorist!" Trevor responded,"I swear by almighty God that farmer and that dog are working together!"

The moral of the story being is that elites, who have too much time and power in their hands will always find better ways of developing more control over the masses.The Sheeple are too busy surviving to realise that this is the way they have always done things throughout history.Have you ever read Shakespear's work?

Banjo,come on you said you would be fair dinkum.
My last day at school In a then hamlet called Yanderra saw me leave without being able to write.
I was 13 but I knew then, know still our earth has life, all life, because of the Sun.
While cooling the sun generated life, it made our atmosphere, it still does.
Let me be clear I THINK MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE IS TRUE.
I think we can link human population growth from the start of the industrial revolution till now as the driver.
Our miss use of the planet and burning of fossil fuels in that time.
I think a true conspiracy driven by self interested country's and fuel owners has many refusing to look.
Banjo, you surely do not doubt, both party's bend to the monster eating this planet growth.
It has taken me a lifetime to see.
But growth puts dollars in current generations pockets by thieving it from future ones.
I am a conspiracy believer,just not the ones arjay is side tracked on.

dont think im picking on you belly
but i need to quote you

""While cooling the sun generated life,""
mate that simply speaking is bull
cooling in itself dosnt do much
even science hasnt made life
let alone knows how it was made[yes it has theories..but thats just theory]

cooling/sun""it made our atmosphere,it still does.""
again belly no
the sun dosnt make atmosphere...in fact does its best to blow it away

if they are your only guesses to support
""I THINK MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE IS TRUE.""
mate think again
""we can link human population growth from the start of the industrial revolution till now as the driver.""

mate the cause of the industrial revolution was because we emerged from the mini ice age[middle ages]...into a warming environment..this led to the age of invention the victorian age..[underpinning the undustrial evolution]

fossil fueld didnt start the warming
the earths orbit[arround the sun did]
its not a circular orbit..it is more egg shaped
at times we are closer..like now..then other times further so we get cooling..add in the sun spot cycle..where we get wetter periods etc

its the sun son
think belly..the earth is IN outerspace
outerspace is feeezing..well below zero degrees
[think of like you being in a freezer the only protection from the space frezer..and us is the atmosphere only barely keeping the heat in

fool scientists mucking about with it
with methane cfc's and nitrouse oxide gas
[ie greenhouse gasses NOT TAXED][will bring in the next ice age]

WE need warming..!

[ya think those
who really run things
want more of us?..or less of them?]

saying opps we were wrong....yeah right

mate they never admit what they really are doing

think how long solar cells
[or gas wells will last]

EVEN THEIR CURE
isnt no permanent fix
we are being conned..into a new tax
to subsidise the wrong solutions to the wrong problem's

Belly,
I am always fair dinkum, I would never deliberately try to mislead you, or anyone else, that is not my nature and I trust my opinions are based on the facts as I know them. Besides there are plenty here, on OLO, that would soon put me straight if I stray from that. Certainly I make mistakes, but try hard to keep them rare.

You are right about the growth in population since the industrial revolution, but that has to do with more food production and better transport. Vastly improved medicine, in western countries by way of vacines and anti-biotics lead to the survival of millions. Fosil fuels was very much part of this, firstly with coal, which revolutionized transport and then oil.

I disagree with you about man made climate change as I think it one of those things we have no influence over, like tides and earthquakes. But if the facts change, I will change my mind. I think the activity on the sun has an influence on climate but am not sure about how much.

I share your concern about the world population growth and I think religion is stopping us from implementing measures, like in Iran, to gradually reduce the current birthrates in those countries that really require a reduction. Very high immigration by Aus will not solve this problem, but only increase our own problems. i.e. Water and other infastructure, transport.

greg con/bet..was spuiking his spin..at the pressclub

it was sickening...he said stuff about us not going it alone[quoting things that might happen soon]..generalisations about greenhouse gasses..but only taxing co2

he didnt dare look at the camera
thus knows he is selling a lie

he steadfastly looked to the left..looked to the right
HE..knows..he is selling a lie

mentioned yet again only 1000 biggest poluters will need to buy permits..[pushed on to us the consumer..then we pay..

so why use the spin grog/con-bet...
its taxing us..[any fool knows we will pay..plus give those 1000 poluters a bonus..for collecting the tax..FROM US]

it is getting harder to listen to the
spin of the grog..[greg]..comming from con/BET

[he did admit some of the tax was going to remove nitrous-oxide from coal-gas fumes..

so knows nitrouse-oxide is a greenhouse gas..
yet refuses to tax that one..just co2..[screw you greg]

ps note all the steel pipes govt is putting in
to deliver the 'gas' to the ports..[where it needs to be cooled before sending it overseas to make money for capitalists..getting their pipeline..[infastructure]..put in..*on our increased electricity and gas charges

please note the co2..cost of cooling the gas
is huge..as was reported re western australia experience
where that process has increased their co2 output

so much for gas being the better 'fix'

wanna con/bet the fix is in?

our prices going up..to pay for capitalists infastructure!

these people are the lobby..
we saw on the news last week
begging govt for their new tax break[co2 tax]

but today the same numbers were on the streets
lobbying for their govt grants..to do science/research

[my points being..special intrest groups
can get big numbers in the street's..

so those..wanting the tax..
are just those getting the govt grants..[solar/gas export mob]

worse they say things like a cure costs 3 million
to save 2 billion...[i forget re what disease]

but they also mentioned..the vacination we found in oz
but then gave to overseas intrests

thing is research 'wins'
dont go back into our tax coffers

nor will the co2 trading..
no tax..no cash-back...NO/grants..[get it?]