http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/anz-boss-dumps-labor-in-worlds-weak-club/story-e6frg8zx-1226036244587

Labor's deal with the Greens to secure power has left it vulnerable in having to manage "minority" interests. "The political cycle is based on survival rather than the good of the country." We don't need something that just clips the ticket and puts on a few more public servants to oversee it.

From the rampant cost blow outs on the NBN, to the job and equity destroying ineffectiveness of the carbon tax. These policies are driven by the need to do something that seems appealing irrespective of its actual value.

We have government of the people, by the opportunistic, for the minority interests.

Why don't we just assign Labor to the irrelevant box !

SM, we had a similar discussion a few weeks back where I suggested that we don’t really know what Julia’s plan is. I think we are at the stage where we might be able to suggest that there isn’t one.

She seems to have opened just too many battle fronts for her government to be sustainable. It’s all about tactical responses to contentious issues created by her. The more she and her ministers protest that there are no issues, everything is fine and on track, the more questions remain unanswered, the greater the loss of cred.

There is evidence that the electorate has simply switched off and is waiting for the next election. Much damage will be inflicted on the Australian economy in the meantime however; there are so many similarities with the NSW ALP that we appear to be on track for the same result.

Just let them get on with it, the own goals are coming thick and fast.

Shadow Minister,

Government for minority interests? You mean like no tax for miners, and polluters, no stimulus money for schools, bashing the unemployed and disabled, being ardently in favour of regulating who we sleep with, who we marry, what we do with our bodies, who can have children and how and the list goes on. You're talking about the Liberals - we get it!

no stimulus money for schools,
Lexi,
It's not money that's needed there, it's integrity & sense that'll pull the education system out of the hole, not money. It's money that's made education what it is today, a hopeless waste of resources.

Dear Individual,

School facilities that are in dire need of repair
won't be fixed by "integrity." Money would repair the basics at least.

Of course more than just money is needed to fix the education system. However, it's a start.

Lexi do not wast your time in such negative company.
You and I are aware at least Tony Abbott STILL trys to win over independents and worked very hard to get greens on his team.
Today or indeed tomorrow,any day,Conservatives would deal with the Devil to get power.
I am a fierce opponent of the greens, FOREVER.
But deal with them I would, to keep Abbott out of power.
He is fly paper for hard headed unthinking conservatives, like a bright light is the moths at night.
Look yet again at his policy's,his ability to change his mind and views is at least, as unattractive as Gillards.
A focus on Labors wrongs is OK, if those who do it can compare once Liberalism to todays Tea Party Liberals lost nature and remoteness from its foundations.

Dear Belly,

Focusing on any party's wrongs is fair enough, I guess. But what I can't understand is - SM seems to do only that! I mean, has he ever posted a thread that doesn't attack Labor?

It's almost as if he's a plant on this forum with an agenda to keep stirring the pot against Labor. He doesn't enter into the discussion -and simply keeps repeating the party line of condemnation. Perhaps he should change his name from "Shadow Minister," to "Minister of Propaganda?" Now that would be something constructive for a change.

This sort of petty points-scoring and triumphalism trivializes the issues, in my view spindoc.

>>we had a similar discussion a few weeks back where I suggested that we don’t really know what Julia’s plan is. I think we are at the stage where we might be able to suggest that there isn’t one.<<

It is actually a little difficult not to feel some sympathy with Ms Gillard on this, even though I agree she is being singularly unimpressive at the moment.

She finds herself in a position, unique in Australian political history, of having to manage a mishmash coalition of Labor hardliners, Labor lightweights, air-head Greens and a couple of what's-in-it-for-me independents.

Plus a vindictive ex-PM who will slide the stiletto between her ribs at the first clear opportunity.

To cap it all, a Fourth Estate that values sensationalism over substance, and that has all the empathy of a hyena contemplating a wounded antelope.

A coalition typically does not allow one Party free rein to implement their manifesto. Anyone who describes every tiny compromise as a "sell-out" has no concept of what coalition government entails.

Pericles that is a brilliant post, as is your habit, understanding and balanced.
I have just a little different view, not much.
NSW should have warned the ALP it is not a ladder for egos without legs or skills.
Without commitment.
It has not yet.
But it will, we have some real fools advising us, have had for two decades.
Whoever told Paul K, now a silly old man, to repeat every thing he said,should be beheaded.
Gillard has been surrounded by fools.
And she is the most hungry for power woman this country ever has seen,she is a failure, but outstanding in comparison to Abbott.
Lexi I have asked that question of Shadow Minster every day I posted here.
Still think he fills your description well, individual to is unlikely ever to see other than his own entrenched view.
A hard skin has formed over some posters,I left twice rather than be insulted by them.
But I was wrong, it is high praise to be despised by such!

Lexi & Belly,
It may be annoying to you if some of us keep pointing out unpleasant facts about Labor. But, if you had your life affected by Labor policies & Labor cronies as I have than you would think different.
Can you ask them to give me back some of the life they've ruined for me ?

"It may be annoying to you if some of us keep pointing out unpleasant facts about Labor."...Oh Indy....its called guilt. What the abbreviations of Pensioners means is......Mouldy-elderly-Australian-suckers! and Tony is your friend.....Ok then:)...lol...

LEAP

Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 9 April 2011 9:51:33 AM

" ... She seems to have opened just too many battle fronts for her government to be sustainable. ... "

It has long been considered wise not to underestimate your opponent *SpinDoc,* and more specifically I suspect that the ALP comes to understand that how by engaging more and more widely with the community, portflio by porfolio, that the emparted sense of being involved and sharing in the decision making process will create additional adherents, who are also capable of advocacy, when appropriately stimulated. .. Indeed, Dog Whistle Mark II. ..

..

*ShadowMinister*

Whilst smaller in number, the Japanese forces came in through the Singaporean strategic weak point, and were rewarded with the live painting of the pom bowing to the Superior of the moment. HaHaHa.

..

I sniff an *Australia Card* in the wing, where the efforts of "Max the Axe" looks like the work of a pre-schooler.

..

I for 1 do not expect politicians to be perfect, but I do expect them to be cogniscant of that fact.

And now, it is pleasing to me that the Liberal Party are gradually becoming *True Believers* regarding the Climate, as it really is in the here and now.

Sorry dream on I can not get the meaning of your post.
Quantum leap, leap as you like to say?
See age has nothing to do with opinion, and insults are not words of wisdom.
You insult half of us based on age, I ask are you still in school?
Individual has worked hard to be as biased as he is, it has nothing to do with age.
Now both party's need a hand on their shoulders.
A reminder Parliament is not a private boys school, that running the country not ruining it is the task.
I can only hope we can one day face issues of great importance without the slander and media beat ups, without self interest.

Pericles, Sympathy for Julia? You must be joking?

I have no problem with a bit of “understanding and balance” as Belly puts it however, what is it we are trying to understand and balance here?

We are all responsible for our actions regardless of whether or not we accept that. The law of unintended consequences is not selective.

We had a government that became so unpopular under Rudd/Gillard that the electorate wiped out a sixteen seat ALP majority plus a couple more seats.

Julia made commitments to the Greens and independents in order to retain power, those commitments are increasingly unsustainable and Julia is paying an extraordinary political and personal price.

When you say “She finds herself in a position, unique in Australian political history,” you seem to imply that this was all someone else’s fault that she suddenly “found herself” there. You also seek to lay blame or excuse her predicament on the media, Kevin, labor caucus, labor lightweights and even more extraordinary, her coalition partners?

In her desperation to retain power, she not only compromised any remaining ALP principles, she also compromised risk assessment, unintended consequences and sustainability. She is now being bitten very badly by all three compromises. Tough!

It’s interesting that regardless of how bad things get for our government, ALP support still focuses upon “Ah well, it could be worse if we had Tony”. What is it we are not learning? Tony will remain a small target and “policy light” until the next election, regardless of how much the Liberal opposition is provoked. The government has opened up far too many conflicts with far too many opponents on far too many highly contentious issues and will grind to a halt.

How can we predict this? It is exactly the same model as the NSW ALP because that is “from whence this model came” and we know what happens to this model.

As they say in the “Little Britain” comedy, Yeh but, Ah but, No but.

Julia has made a very uncomfortable bed and must not only lay on it, she must share it!

Dear Individual,

I'm sorry that you seem to think that Labor has caused you grief. I know how you feel. Many Victorians feel the same way about the Kennett government. Most of us lost a great deal. So you see it's all a matter of what we experience and under whom.

Individual has worked hard to be as biased as he is, it has nothing to do with age.
Belly,
Labor cronie bureaucrats did all the work to make me disapprove of Labor not any bias on my part. Bias is lending support blindly. Only those who have no integrity do that. Like those who voted for Gillard. I'm observing with eyes & ears wide open. How can I ignore & deny what I observe ?

Dear Individual,

No one is asking you to deny what you observed. Others are simply presenting you with their take on things. If the world consisted simply of some self-evident reality that everyone perceived in exactly the same way, there might be no disagreement among observers.
But the truth of the matter is that what we see is shaped by what our past experience has prepared us to see and by what we consciously or unconsciously want to see.

Therefore inevitably we'll all be guilty of some measure of bias - the tendency, to interpret facts according to one' own values. As I've written in the past - how can this problem be solved? The first step is to recognize that subjectivity and objectivity are not too neat and separate categories; they are really matters of degree. By exercising caution, we can at least try to be as objective as possible. Total objectivity is probably impossible to achieve but a self-conscious effort to be objective would help in our interaction with fellow contributors - especially in discussions on forums such as this one.

One more time, spindoc.

>>When you say “She finds herself in a position, unique in Australian political history,” you seem to imply that this was all someone else’s fault that she suddenly “found herself” there.<<

She is the first Australian political leader to find herself in the position, in the aftermath of an election, of having to negotiate for power with a bunch of random minor parties and "independent" ratbags.

Sure, she orchestrated the demise of Rudd. To that extent she brought it upon herself.

But the situation in which she found herself after the election was, I maintain, "unique in Australian political history".

Hindsight says that she should have left the ratbags for Abbott to manage, and simply watch him make precisely the same strategic mistakes. Fun, but not particularly responsible.

As I said, I don't believe she has made many smart decisions. But when there are no precedents, and you have to make five judgment calls where - managing as a single Party - you would previously only have to make one, the job is far from straightforward.

Abbott would have been in the same situation.

The biggest mistake was to allow a government to be formed at all. Quentin Bryce should have fulfilled her role honestly, and rejected the matzoh pudding of a coalition she was offered, on the basis that it would be unstable.

Which it clearly is.

Unfortunately, the country is still suffering from Gough-itis, even after all these years. Her options - agree to the lovely Julia, or force another election to be held - were circumscribed by the residual race-memory of Kerr. Any intervention by the Governor-General in politics would cause a riot in the streets, so she did the line-of-least-resistance bit.

A situation that we really have to resolve, if we are ever to become a Republic.

Indy you defame me, in that post.
Slander me in fact.
re look at your description of me and ALL THOSE WHO VOTED LABOR the last two elections.
Sir then surely.
I can say what I think of you.
No I will not, it would needlessly hurt you.
You are probable a good person.
But if ever you have an original thought, it will be your first.

Belly,
Appologies if I offended you personally. I'd been under the impression you weren't a Gillard supporter.
What I mean when I rave on like this is that there are people out there who, despite knowing how much many people are worse off under Labor, they still support the party which creates that situation. If I knew of a situation when the Coalition does so much harm to the community then I will most certainly say so as well.

individual:>> It's not money that's needed there, it's integrity & sense that'll pull the education system out of the hole, not money. It's money that's made education what it is today, a hopeless waste of resources.<<

Individual, last year I heard an interview on the ABC with the president of the Australian Mathematical Society. In a nutshell she said that we have half the number of students going into courses that require higher mathematics than thirty years ago. She quite rightly prognosticated a dismal future for Australia in regard to becoming just a consumer end point for products and services, if the broader society can afford them at that stage she added. She was talking devolution.

I believe the gravity of the dumbing down is not adequately displayed in the above numbers, I take into consideration that our population has grown by 70% in the last fourty years, so the percentage of our population going into courses that require higher maths is a piddle compared to thirty years ago, it is frightening, the second and third world are getting educated and we have been strategically dumbed down. I personally see it as part of the NWO agenda.

Money is not the issue, curriculum is

sonofgloin,
Four decades ago the average labourer could spell three times better than todays teachers. One incident springs to mind, about 15 years ago in an Aboriginal community Post Office.
Grade 3 kids put up drawings on the wall about volcanoes. One little girl had Lava written at the end of an arrow pointing to the slope of the volcano.
The white teacher, aged about 25, in front of several P.O. customers rubbed out the word Lava & re-wrote Larva. She had the nerve to tell the poor kid in front of everyone she couldn't spell. I just had to defend the kid & was told what would you know about spelling.
From my observations the standard of teachers in Qld hasn't improved since.

Indy it is a plan to make us helpless, totally reliant on others, for everything.

The better half works in the school system and I have one at uni so at the moment I get firsthand accounts of how inadequate to the task many lecturers are, and the shallow school syllabus which works on the premise that a tabulator will ease us of the burden of knowing and reasoning. The system needs a root and branch rework from infants up but no government state or fed wants to go against education protocols from Brussels, they tell us to teach the humanities and we focused on the humanities from 1980 onwards, just before we saw the higher math subjects start to loose the number of secondary students with an adequate UAI.

Thanks Individual for admitting the obvious,, you rave on.
Then go back and look again at your post.
If you still think I was not included in your statement,, we waste time in talking.
NOW Rudd,he was elected by most Australians, at one time he had 74% in popularity polls.
Even on the day he was replaced,very few knew of his so called sins.
The failures took place after an election.
At that point we had no reason to think he was unelectable.
Gillard? my first post that day said I did not trust her.
Individual, in passing judgment on Labor voters you BLINDLY IGNORE Abbott in our view is far worse than both of them.
I voted against my party in NSW would you ever do that, who lacks balance here, who has no understanding?
This is Australia, we once valued mate ship, we once stood in line at polling places and spoke of our gardens and fine weather.
We then quietly voted,every ones polling advice in hand, so we offended no one,and went home, your post is not in that spirit.

Belly,
After Rudd & now Gillard do still believe Labor is good for Australi

Is it possible that the Prime Minister has a crafty plan ? With new Green Senators taking their places on July 1, making her job even more unworkable, is there a chance that she has said to herself, 'Bugger this game,' and is steadily working towards a double dissolution ?

Sorry, just my natural paranoia rising to the surface :)

Joe

Individual, this is not a slur.
It is not me slinging mud at you.
Its me giving my truly held view.
You lack the capability to truly debate or understand the subject.
Greens in July?
Let us consider this, if an election was called today.
And Abbott won, by ten seats.
He then would get what he gave.
Labor being a revolting oppose every thing opposition.
Greens still in control of the Senate.
Yes double dissolution, now please.
But no Gillard is too busy hanging on.
Abbott too busy being the fool he is.
We Australian voters are being ignored, some of us even back the blind stupidity we see in our national Capital.
Yet if AUSTRALIA came first a true honest review of every major sticking point, consensus could be reached.
Deals done,agreements to isolate the dangerous left hiding as a conservation party.
Hold all guilty not just the foolish greens.

Belly,

Seriously, if there was a double dissolution, how many Senate seats would the Greens end up with ? More, or fewer, than they're due to get come July 1 ?

And would Oakeshott and Windsor survive ? Would Labor preference the Greens or just run open tickets ?

Interesting times !

Belly,

If there were an election now, and the coalition won an additional 10 seats they would not need to make the silly agreements with the minor parties. Labor under Beazley did exactly what Abbott is doing now, but without the incompetence and idiotic policies that Labor is trying to sell now, this largely falls on deaf ears.

If the greens do hold the balance of power, I have no doubt that Abbott would call a double dissolution election.

As for your comparison between Abbott and Gillard, I would prefer Abbott any day, at least he considers promises to hold some weight. His personal credibility is far higher than "the promises I made don't count anymore" Gillard.

Pericles
"She finds herself in a position, unique in Australian political history, of having to manage a mishmash coalition of Labor hardliners, Labor lightweights, air-head Greens and a couple of what's-in-it-for-me independents."

Why can't she just do nothing until the next election? I mean it's not as if she's going to get in again, certainly not trying to force the ideas of the mishmash onto the population, and that way there'd be less damage for the next mob to fix up than if she keeps trying to do stuff.

Loudmouth if the election, as is most likely, is a ordinary one the results will be far different.
Independents are not going to be needed and maybe not returned in any case, you will never see a hung federal Parliament in your remaining life time.
Greens are gone, big call but it is my view.
They how ever while not winning as many upper house seats would most likely still be in control.
And while Gillard is firing blanks, do not look for a NSW style victory for Conservatives.
Much of what is called miss mash policy's is in fact supported by most.
Gillard is the wrong person,Labor is AGAIN sitting like a rabbit in a spotlight.
Afraid to act, a new leader could say sorry, for every thing.
Then dump unpopular policy's,remembering not to breed greens voters by ignoring the environment.
Abbott is also the wrong man who of us can say they think he is not.
As Gillard leans on him he leans on her,both are riding on the others unpopularity.
A Turnbull lead opposition would bring a victory without doubt.
A change in Labor Shorten, or Combet would in fact lead to one on conservative bench's.
IF the next election was DD under current leaders Lib/Nats will win.
Federal Labor has lost touch with its supporters but we are fixed against the mad monk.

Belly:>> Abbott is also the wrong man who of us can say they think he is not.<<

Thats a fact.

>> A Turnbull lead opposition would bring a victory without doubt.<<

Belly I want the Labor feds out, but if Turnbull gets the nod it's tea party time for Australia. We do not need a hawke leading the Libs, keep the starling.

I have to differ here, no joy in it.
See what concerns me the most, frightens hell out of me, is the direction Australian politics has taken of late.
every one of our past 4 national leaders, not Gillard!
Was better than our current two.
We see tea party politics right now.
Who would ever think the party of Bob Menzies would concede its policy's and ideas to the American republicans, and the very worst of them at that.
Labor,I do not request a Socialist Utopia from them, no such thing exists, can exist or should exist.
But we all, even you and I let media turn our politics in to a joke.
Watch ABC women questioners will IQ of less than impressive ask dumb questions in hope of getting answers that will give headlines not facts.
We need only our best to move both sides of this country's politics out of Americas muddy foot tracks.
We need to get off out knees and be the country we in fact once could be so proud of.
Politics is becoming like football, my team was robbed rubbish.

From what I have seen over the last forty years, and the recent remarks on the Liberal party web, It is fairly obvious from the remarks of those fanatics of the liberal party, that their only vision is the destruction of the labor party, and the only vision of those of the labor party, is to destroy the liberal party, and I hope they both succeed, I doubt that the other parties have enough intelligence to become a proper source of government, and maybe somebody intelligent will start a party with integrity and intelligence to step in and run the country intelligently and working with pride and honour with their constitution, ensuring that our Australian manufacturing and farming industries have priority, and not destroyed with the export mining reciprocal imports of those cheap clothing and even trains and other goods that the stores are depending on so dearly. Sure we have fanatics who don't even know what is needed to obtain a good economy. Away from those recessions that both parties have driven our country into over the last thirty or so years, Paul Keating, John Howard, Peter Costello and Wayne Swan. If you are going to blame any of the guilty people, you have to blame all responsible without favour, except if you are a fanatic and corrupt of course.

Merv the world you want last existed in about 1950.
It is not possible to turn the clock back.
And the very people you think are hurting the most would be of not help in fixing it.
The big tin shed hardware chain, soon to have real opposition, the big white goods providers.
All sell other country's goods.
To compete we would need to pay 20% of current pay rates, and have a slave class of workers.
World trade good or bad, it can be both, is the bridge we all walk on or sink and drown.
We have labor or liberal take your pick, but waiting for the perfect party is a waste of a thousand lifetimes, it will never happen

Posted by merv09, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 7:38:36 AM

" ... ensuring that our Australian manufacturing and farming industries have priority, and not destroyed with the export mining reciprocal import ... "

Well said *Merv09*

We could have a domestic rate for resources. Australia is not a dead and bloated whale carcass to be fed upon by International predators.

And Farmers who do the bulk of the work ought not be made to fight amongst themselves whilst parasitic retailers take the lion's share of the profit. It's a bad joke, but the majority of Australians are about as bright as *Belly*

..

You see, the *Greens* have stood for scientific reality and principal in relation to the Climate Change and Human Rights.

What you have from the alp and the liberal party is child abuse, as for some reason in their perverted, delusional minds, national security is somehow predicated on locking children up indefinitely without charge or trial in circumstances known to give rise to mental health issues.

..

Please note that I am not at liberty to truly express what I believe is the solution to the problem of the Child Abuser parties.

Ah so you are back, that is who dream on is!
LEA the lunatic green mentioned in this mornings press, as marching with the man who called our women for wearing cloths other than he favors.
Burkas? he would not have been against them, any attempt to sell the greens as other than foolish Lefty's is doomed.
And pedophile party's? freedom of speech is of great value, but it surely brings a responsibility to those who miss use it so.
Name one party not totally repulsed by ANY CHILD SEX OFFENDER
I respond to this post with a question, having been here in OLO forced to confront a poster who I believe may be dream on.
For naming the ALP and me,as pedophiles ask this question.
Is it OK to use such violent words in this country as a form of political debate?
I never start an act of violence EVER but rarely walk away.
This time I do,some have issues that clearly must be taken into account.
Get well if its possible dream on.