That's a wonderfully rose-coloured glasses view of military life Captain Darling (IsMise). But, as everybody knows, spittle is de rigueur in the armed forces.

Haven't you seen that movie A Few Good Men? There are countless other movies featuring close-talkers shouting into a soldier's face while spittle flies EVERYWHERE!

I'm afraid I don't believe your unsupported and un-provable assertions.

I repeat, I want the brutal sadists defending me. Not some PC talking-stick mob.

'He that got butted had been in the habit of asking young inexperienced boys to give him their rifle while on guard, when they did he would put them on a charge for giving him their rifle. '

A mild form of bastardisation I would say. Bullying hierarchical culture with humiliation based initiation rights-of-passage. I support it wholeheartedly.

" I'm with pelican, they should do a health and safety audit on that one."

You are? Can't remember mentioning spittle.

The bastardisation rituals are archaic. These sorts of rituals are not positive nor do they instil trust or feelings of security about the men fighting along side you in war.

I would rather have a soldier next to me who had defended me against a group of sadistic neanderthals than took advantage of a vulnerability ie. new cadet.

It is not necessary to be a sadist to be a good soldier nor to have courage. Often it is those who are speaking out about these behaviours that show courage. Not the namby pambys who hide behind the screen of 'manhood' afraid to do the right thing

Right on, Pelican.
Others who have seen spittle flying have been watching to many American movies.
It might be a theory about America's Armed forces that they break men down to build them up the way that they want them. I've never seen it, the Marines that I knew were as individualistic as any men that I met in our army. I had very little to do with the US Army.
I met a few Australian Officers who were rotten to the core and they didn't last long, but I also knew Officers who were indeed 'Officers and Gentlemen'.
One product of Duntroon, (the son of an Australian General), won the hearts and minds of his first platoon on their very first parade.
When all were seated in an old and rusty WW II Nissen hut he addressed them thus "My name is Blank. I am a First Lieutenant and I am your Platoon Commander (suppressed groans from the mob; what the bloody hell have we got here?).
"This is Sgt. Sssss and Corporals Cccc and Bcccc. They have just returned from Korea and are here to teach us (us?)
I will be admistrative head of the platoon but they will be in charge of our (our?) training. My professional interest is Armour and, as yet, I know very little about the Infantry. Carry on Sergeant.".
Then he sat down in the first row of diggers, and so it went, but there was never any familiarity, he was always 'Mister' to his men, never once did he step down from being an Officer but there was great mutual respect.

He went on to do very well.

Did being the General's son help? Probably not much, I was standing beside him on a roadside in Korea when Dad arrived (he hadn't seen his father for two years) as the General walked by he saluted his father who touched the brim of his cap in return, said "G'day, son" and continued on his way. They got together a few days later.

"I'm afraid I don't believe your unsupported and un-provable assertions.".

But then one wouldn't expect you to, you've never been there an' done that.
I could, of course, mention names, places and dates but these blokes are possibly still alive and rather old if they are, and one would not like to cause any embarassment, however mild.

Dear Is Mise,

Thanks for sharing your accounts. I enjoyed reading them. It just goes to show that we can't lump everyone together - there's always differences even in the Defence Forces.