morgonzola,
nope, I'm a conservative !

Dear runner,

Apparently this recent incident is only the tip of the iceberg (no pun intended). It seems that there have been many incidents involving females being taken advantage of in the Defence Forces with no criminal charges ever being laid. As Peter Reith said in a recent interview - it's time that those in charge admitted that a serious problem does exist and that a full investigation took place and criminal charges if found guilty - were laid. Many have gotten away with inappropirate and bullying behaviour for far too long.

Morganzola, perhaps you've forgotten that 2 ex leaders of Labor in Qld, one leader & one deputy leader were locked up for pedophilia. That comes a bit above sniffing I think.

Yes Lexi, you are right, we have far too many lady officers, & not enough lady men [other ranks] in our defence forces. That is one of the reasons that we do not have enough engineer ratings to crew more than half our navy ships. Men won't serve under them.

The men have always had to take young male junior officers in hand, & supply the training that the college did not. Most young officers don't know which way is up, when they come out of college. This does not work as it did, now they are flooded with girl junior officers. Many of the old hands who supplied this unofficial training would rather get out than bother.

When a leading hand stoker, [engineer] was recently asked why there was a plastic vase, with paper flowers zip tied to the bulkhead oh his engine room on one navy ship he answered that like a good boy scout he was prepared.

Prepared for what he was asked. Well you see he said, we've had a girl junior engineering officer on board for a while now. She has yet to venture into an engine room, but I'm prepared just in case she ever does.

Many of these girls are a bad joke, as far as defence goes. It is OK to have a bleeding heart in a library, but they are no use in a boarding party. These girls will have to toughen up, or try a different line of work.

It is about time that Defence got their act together. Not only in terms of the culture but better management of resources - they are a shocker.

But while senior officers and public servants continue to promulgate the 'over reaction' line not much will change.

To fix a problem one first has to admit there is a problem.

Further to *Lexi's* comments I would suggest that we need to be ever cognizant of the fact that this society, amongst others, delights in duplicity. That is to say, that what is said for public purposes does not always accord with private practice and opinion.

You see, whilst I admit that I am not aware of the current circumstances, I can testify that both the australian and north american militaries have for a long time docked in those ports of the world that are little more than glorified whore houses on the beach, such as Pattaya, Thailand, and in that regard I may share some of *Runner's* in principal concerns.

To me, and admittedly I hold a minority view on count in many areas, once you start taking advantage of women from impoverished backgrounds merely because you can for a small financial cost, with the reward being more than just sexual gratification, then in some cases it is clear that a regard and respect for women as a whole is eroded, thus the cureent scandal comes as no surprise to me.

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The Navy in W.A. for a long time had the "Ol Blue Eyes Initiation" for officers, where an elderly Original Australian woman north of Perth was involved.

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This is regrettabley another one of those phoney debates where the manner of the "Feeding of the Chooks" determines that which is aired in the public media.

The politicians know this .. clearly .. but simply do not care sufficiently to do anything about it, and thus legitimise the practice by attending multi-national conferences in these dens of iniquity.

It re-inforces an us and them mentality i.m.o. and I find that an ongoing practice with many disturbing features.

The problem with the military, and para-military organizations (police and such), is that they are a power unto their own. They shouldn't be run by civilians who have no idea but they need independent services keeping them in check, such as criminal investigators, shrinks, medical services, and such. They are TOO independent when really there's no real logical reason for them to be that way. Those days are gone where the military had to run that way 'on the run' cause of distance from their society.