China has a lot of inefficiencies but they are ahead of us because they have 80% of their new money for growth created by the Govt.10% of their loans default.There is much corruption etc but their cheap labour and debt free growth money puts them way ahead of us.

We are in a far more precarious situation than China.We virtually have no manufacturing and our Govts and doing their best to destroy farming.Perhaps the gods have made them all insane.

The GFC is far from over and I predicted this collapse 2 yrs ago.

pericules quote.."'What is the difference between money they have on deposit, which they are obliged to give back under certain defined circumstances,""'

i love the pot kettle stuff
'obliged to give back''...lol
unless the bank goes bust

[and then they arnt even ''obliged to give back their BONUS'
presumably given them for good work..only as recently as the last bonus period
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/it_on_our_tWJLw3C710wXwE4kSDqeiJ

the other joke is we need to keep their experteaze
..when their experteaze sent the bank bust

most of em would do the job without the bonus
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/04/financial_markets_0?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/toobigtofail

[how absurd is the reserve banker of australia getting over a million in basic 'wage'[the highest public servant pay?]

res bank isnt govt owned
res bank is a bankers colluded/controled franchise

[they might allow the pennies[mint]
to remain under some form of govt [quasi govt lable]..
but the REAL big money[notes]..they own free and clear

but back to your quote

""and money they have borrowed (even from overseas/shock, horror!), which they are obliged to give back under certain defined circumstances?"""

yes PAY back...in the same coin that was lent
ie if the yen it was borrowed in..rises..you pay MUST PAY heaps more
or if the yanki dollar falls big time..repay much less

but the values of both are manipulated big time

lol..''obliged to give-back..
under certain defined circum-stances""

implies some have no 'obligation'..to 'pay it back'
and of course for some its a colusional possability..
but for the rest of us it aint
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=5264

just as the values..can rise and fall..to injure the peons[the people]..or advantage various coplluding bankers..holding the fixed [in other currencies] debt..in the falling values currencies..
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/04/imf-urges-us-to-address-debt-now.html
its a clever game
no one looses...lol

unless its your argentianian germanic
or nigerian..money values being stolen
http://dailybail.com/home/matt-taibbi-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-on-the-backs-of-the-middle.html

and yet the coin melt values...of the metal in the coin
still hold[should hold]..the true value...of the metal of the coin

http://myamazingfact.blogspot.com/2011/04/bureaucrats-ivil-servants-and-their.html

[in a just world
not run by vile money changers
http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/03/07/us-deficit-is-unsustainable-watch-out-for-the-ramifications/

charging vairiable ursury to the help rich...[with lower intrest
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/04/trumps.html

and kill the poor with higher intrerst

ie the micro lending to the poor
note how many are paying hundreds of % intrst
on patheticly small ammounts of money...with huge threats and repayment presures

and the big boys
they just put their debt in a us dollar..thats going to collapse
and repay it in tinme..with pennies on the dollar[in true values]

see the joke
""There is no difference.""

lol]

"Certainly not to the end-borrower""
big end of town borrower
TO THEM its their advantage lever..if they learn how to use it
but to the poor..its a tool of oppression..
http://www.revoltoftheplebs.com/categories/news-analysis/looting-social-security-to-wage-war/

[if your 'withus' you can get cheap credit..
if you cant we will lend you at huge intrest
and make you even more poor
http://dailybail.com/home/iceland-does-it-again-icesave-repayment-scheme-rejected.html

"it's all just money.""
http://www.examiner.com/nonpartisan-in-national/why-we-the-people-will-win-the-new-american-revolution-against-us-fascism
lol

its a tool of oppression
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/visalli4.1.1.html
http://www.revoltoftheplebs.com/categories/occupied-palestine/terrorist-state-of-israel-to-get-205-million-from-us-taxpayer-to-wage-war-on-palestine/
some get it
http://www.revoltoftheplebs.com/categories/news-analysis/financing-of-illegal-wars-on-humanity/
many wont
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/04/surging-food-prices-fuel-ethanol.html

its so easy to defend the have's
and squat on..the have nots
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/china-lashes-out-us-hypocrisy-blasts-us-human-rights-double-standard-pursuing-world-hegemony

How will you ever learn anything, if you never question anything, Arjay?

>>China has a lot of inefficiencies but they are ahead of us because they have 80% of their new money for growth created by the Govt.<<

And this is good, because...?

From your numerous previous posts on the subject, I thought that you were dead against the idea of governments "creating new money". Are you making an exception for China? If so, why?

And how come you believe that their government creating "80% of their new money for growth" puts them "ahead of us"?

But wait! What's this?

>>There is much corruption etc but their cheap labour and debt free growth money puts them way ahead of us.<<

I thought we had agreed that the growth money was the product of mammoth bond issues?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Bank-of-China-Looking-to-Boost-Supplementary-Capital&id=6072700

"After a record high credit growth in 2008 and 2009, Chinese banks sold convertible bonds and stocks, and gathered $72 billion through it in 2010"

Do you understand what selling convertible bonds and stocks means, Arjay? That is incurring debt, which will need to be repaid. And the high credit growth is that of their citizenry, also borrowing money. How is this different from any other developed country?

>>The GFC is far from over and I predicted this collapse 2 yrs ago.<<

Which particular collapse is that, Arjay? You predict so many of them, and so often.

Like a stopped clock that tells the correct time twice a day, you are bound to be right occasionally.

And I apologize, one under god, I couldn't find anything in your posts that was clear enough to present an argument for anything factual. So I'll just step back and watch you mud-wrestle with your global financial fantasies. If you ever find the need for any of it to be explained to you in simple terms, just let me know.

ok pericules
its just typical;

you cant justify or rebut the previous points
so play the come to me with a point i can rebut

ok i will play your game
[make another point]

you can explain the logic/justification

behind
..micro lending
*high intrest rates

from a search
http://www.google.com/search?q=micro+lending+egsorbitant+intrst+rates

to quote

""MFIs lend money at exorbitant interest rates
which range from 20 percent to 40 percent""

others say an average arround 27%

yet you and i..can lend arround 7%

many bankers currently lending arround 2%
govt bonds up to 8%

its generally agreed micro lending is good

http://debates.juggle.com/is-micro-lending-a-viable-method-for-helping-stimulating-third-world-economies

but of course the poor
arnt on the net to say its not

NOTE
they dont default
as high as ordenary western loans
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=micro+lending+default+rate&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

""Default rates on MFI loans run about 4%,""

so arnt as big a default risk

admin costs are less..[no business premise rentals]
usually its just a field person collecting the payments

there is a higher missed payment rate
''delinquency rate under 16%''

[but with weekly REPAYMENT..
and often mounthly..*incomming payments for work done

the fact these dont end up in default..
is a statisical
more than practical reality..

[yet they then cop punitive penalties]
absurd intrest rates and odious terms

AND STILL DONT DEFAULT

and the loans are far smaller..[thus smaller risk]

so here is an easy simple question

is it fair for the rich capitalists
to proffiteer from the poor

shouldnt intrest rates be FAR LOWER?

shouldnt govt be lending to its own poor
instead of you capitalists exploiting them

they only need a loan
not the ripp off BURDENS
they currently..*need to endure

just so fat cats rats can get fatter

go on
justify..'it'

you need their URSURY/money
in your pension funds because....?

bankers need the ursury for...?

I suppose I asked for it, one under god, when I suggested "If you ever find the need for any of it to be explained to you in simple terms, just let me know."

I had actually meant Finance 101, which you find horribly difficult to come to terms with, not some perceived injustice you picked up from a random web site.

But ok, let's have a look at it.

>>you can explain the logic/justification
behind
..micro lending
*high intrest rates<<

The first problem is your source. It might not be entirely accurate. For example, the first one I looked at said...

"Micro finance institutions have replaced the traditional money lenders"

This is far from being the case.

The Economist pointed out in November that in Andhra Pradesh, the area of India where most microfinance (MFI) is used...

"Whereas 82% of households have borrowed from informal sources, mainly village moneylenders and relatives or neighbours, only 11% have an MFI loan. On average, borrowers also owe over four times as much to informal lenders, which charge far higher rates, than they do to MFIs.

http://www.economist.com/node/17522350

Here are a couple more Economist articles on the topic. They aren't from a conspiracy site, I'm afraid, so might not meet your standards of truthiness, but they are worth a look.

This one is about the founding father of microcredit, Muhammad Yunus:

http://www.economist.com/node/17857429?story_id=17857429

And one about the human dimension

http://www.economist.com/node/17675848?story_id=17675848

So in answer to your question, the main reason that MFIs might charge high interest, is because... they can.

They are outside mainstream banking, and largely unregulated, so can pretty much do as they please.

Just a word about your logic, while I'm here:

>>admin costs are less..[no business premise rentals]
usually its just a field person collecting the payments<<

Does it occur to you how far these "field people" might have to travel, just to collect a few Rupees?

Incidentally, I know of a couple of non-rip-off MFIs that are run by a local church, that have a very high success rate in kick-starting local micro-economies. The funds come from the Sunday collection plate.