When a party elected to represent us makes us feel hurt or upset, of course we hit back, but why elect a party like the Liberals -to my mind elitist, contrary in interests to the vast majority and a better friend to big business than it is to any average voter.

Yes, in NSW communication between the people and parliament is strained. But at least the ALP has links through to the workers and cannot afford to alienate them. If it errs, it pays dearly, as we are all seeing, but who are the Liberals?

The Liberals aren't built on worker support, they're just coasting on a wave of boredom and dissatisfaction with a longstanding government. Their constituents aren't workers, but the old guard boys clubs of big business and the elites.

I won't be fooled that they will represent us, the workers, because they have no lines of communication with workers. Their heroes and culture warriors fought for the employers, against unions, against workers.

The social elites are born into opportunity, with a 'silver spoon in their mouth'. How can they or their party be expected to sympathise with the working woman or man that just wants to get ahead in life, or at least stay above the poverty line?

They can't. So what need for social programs, playing field levellers with equitable redistribution of wealth? So vote as you will, but ask yourself, who will really do well out of a Liberal win? Are they your friends?

Handle do not be too judgmental.
Look at the figures 22% is Labors first preference vote.
We have a bottom much higher than that.
Why do you think LABOR VOTERS ARE ABOUT TO DUMP THEM
I hope it is because we demand better, a return to honesty,the very ties you claim we have and do not have, with government.
To blindly follow the leader without thought for right or wrong is to betray the ALP.
Its humiliation next month is the first step in saying you bought this on us all.
Now NSW must confront this, no factional leader should survive a day after this Parliament falls.
A new focused party must rebuild but first demolish the self interest and foul criminals who took my party into this massacre.
No growth is often greener and stronger after a bush fire stagnation is not of benefit.

I cant believe 22% of the state would still vote Labor.

I've never voted for the coalition or liberal, but one can only take so much. There comes a time when it is prudent to vote OUT a party with no thought as to who might replace them. This is that time. In fact, the thought of who might replace them is the only thing that saved their bacon 4 years ago. The same mistake WILL NOT be made again! It's been 8 long years of utter shenanigans.

I don't believe a new governmnet can immediately show the same utter contempt or be as wilfully inadequate or corrupt as the current lot. It may take at least 3 years.

Just what kind of signal (Like a beaten and cheated on spouse taking her husband back) would it send if NSW Labor were to go unpunished?

Make no mistake, it is time for retribution and punishment and a statement to be made and a lesson to be handed out. Politicians thought the country must learn from the merciless wrath of the NSW electorate. We need and absolute bloodbath. I'd be happy with them losing all seats, and the party I used to vote for being wound up completely.

union spokes peoople are a joke
wasnt the blue eyed budgy [hawke]..a rhodes scollar

to wit a blue collar slob...
that got the training to be a hobknob

the union sold out the workers long ago
[why drink with common smelly workers after work
when you can drink in high society with the snobs..just for not representing the workers properly]

thing is two party politricks is about lying
pretending..sort of like sending a platoon out to die
but first pas the new laws]..then send in the next party

its a two party system
where one party takes its turn to slap the poor
then the next goes in to do its work

all retired party hacks get on boards
go figure..thats the pay-off ..for their mission well done

look at peter beaty beatup..he went to usa selling trade
after giving us the shaft...[re power and water costs..etc]
just like that nsw blonde has done

then the libs get in and finish off the job
and people dont even know...dont even notice

the rusted on 20 percent..
would still vote for their party
even if satan himself was running it

but he is to busy running the 2 party system
and the public service and the bankers
and a lot more ..in this his realm

we truelly get the govt we deserve
so get used to knowing..they arnt there to serve the people
[at least not the common working class blue colour slobs who pay tax as the earn]

the dummies will never learn

democracy...[demon autocracy]..aint it greate mate?

"to my mind elitist, contrary in interests to the vast majority and a better friend to big business than it is to any average voter."
Handle, you have just described among your entire post, the NSW LABOR party too!

So the question is, who else do we vote for?
(The answer is, read up on the other candidates on your local electoral lists and decide for yourself)

But if you actually seriously believe that anything Keneally, or Carr or Iemma have done was 'for the people/workers etc' then I'm sorry but you're going to have to take your blinkers off and pay better attention.

King Hazza, you are right. I would love to see more diversity in representation, because I think most independents, knowing the limits on their potential power and thus aware of the limits that should logically apply to their ambition, they for the most part have as a result, cleaner, clearer agendas to help our communities. This is because most of them can only aspire to be the representative for their own area, as they don't have the political capital to be transferred or 'parachuted' between seats, they are beholden to their local electors, so they truly have to strive to be the best representative they can be, because they can't pick and choose a seat that is safe for them. If independents do better out of this state parliament than most others in our history, more power to them.

Houellebeq agreed every word, King Hazza all true but not Bob Carr he was our last leader and our best.
History will remind us of his great achievements, we fell over after he left.
The Italian Stallion turned the tables on natural progression and turned in to a fair ground wooden horse.
Watch the faction leadership, they should go,everyone including non parliamentarians.
But know too the blood letting will hurt but lead in time to a return to government.
We, my party turned a state we owned in to the party's worst ever result,all on our own.
Some one must pay for that.
unions dealing with this mob only got in the door if they had a faction leader or weight Carrier in their camp.
NSW Government out door workers go like lambs to the slaughter, because the party their grand father formed thought of them as disposable.

Handle:>> When a party elected to represent us makes us feel hurt or upset, of course we hit back, but why elect a party like the Liberals -to my mind elitist, contrary in interests to the vast majority and a better friend to big business than it is to any average voter.<<

Handle, why are you hurt and upset as you choose to put it?

Are you “hurt” because you were told nothing but Labor lies, the new one for today is the Carbon tax. Gillard said not in this term just six odd months ago.

Are you upset because Kevin vowed to slash $395m in what he identified as "wasteful" Liberal federal spending on consultants, and when in government past the Billion dollars plus mark before they turfed him out.

Are you hurt when you think of the parents of the four young Aussies who died horribly in roof cavities because of Labors incompetent management?

Are you upset because Labor only released a handful of pages from the cost analysis for Broadband?

Are you hurt because Labor only released a handful of pages from the BER report?

Are you upset because of the $850 Million solar blowout?

Are you hurt because Labor promised 260 child care outlets and only delivered 38?

Are you upset because Labor promised 2500 new aged care beds and delivered 52?

Are you hurt because Labor promised Laptops to all year 9-12 students and only delivered a quarter of those?

Are you upset because the Indigenous Housing Plan spent $670 Million and not one house was built?

Are you hurt that 5.5 Billion spend on extra hospital funding delivered 11 new beds?

Are you hurt and upset because Labor was left a 20 Billion Budget Surplus that they turned to a 50 billion debt in under three years?

Handle you are a cellular animal that obviously cannot identify pain. There is a genetic condition that means that if you put your hand on the stove, you do not react until you smell burning flesh. You suffer from that malady.

"The social elites are born into opportunity, with a 'silver spoon in their mouth'. How can they or their party be expected to sympathise with the working woman or man that just wants to get ahead in life, or at least stay above the poverty line?"

Absolute thoughtless balderdash! Formulated in envy!

I am NOT a Liberal Party member and they do not get my number[1] vote; howeber of all the liberal Party members I know they are ordinary hard working people running a small business, trying to raise a family. There are a small number of goons among them equally the same as any party. However they do seem to excell in economic management, as they know what it takes to run a sucessful business. Charity / welfare can only exist if the businesses are prosperous.

Handle, It’s just a blame game to you. It’s all screwed up so we must blame someone. How about starting with those who kept voting them in based upon, ideological, dreaming, fantasies?

Then you add that, bad as this lot are, and yes it doesn’t get much worse, the other “lot”, who have not been in power are the ones to really fear, astonishing reflective angst.

Your “diversity” comments are a grab for absolutely anything that excludes “The social elites are born into opportunity, with a 'silver spoon in their mouth'”, Liberals I suppose? The credit you bestow upon “independents” cannot possibly refer to anything in the real world, unless of course you would care to bestow those same benefits upon Willkie, Oakeshot and Windsor. But you wouldn’t would you? I don’t know, maybe you would.

Belly, the loss of any remaining excuses for the NSW ALP has reduced you to fudge. I’m afraid you don’t make much sense any more; your post is just “thrashing” for some sort of context or relevance for the ALP, sorry mate, it’s all gone

"Yes, in NSW communication between the people and parliament is strained. But at least the ALP has links through to the workers and cannot afford to alienate them. If it errs, it pays dearly, as we are all seeing, but who are the Liberals?"

Handle
Your own statement above is contradictory. How can the ALP "pay dearly" if it errs (your words) if they are not voted out. The ALP already got one miraculous chance last NSW election and because there was no 'payback' nothing changed except the window dressing.

I agree the ideal is to vote on ideological grounds but really, how long has it been since the ALP (or the Liberals) were true to original platforms. The ALP plays lip service to its union heritage and is probably for the union movement nothing more than the best of a bad bunch, except for those few unionists who aspire to political careers.

There are the Greens and Independents - maybe that would be real payback for both parties who have failed in their representative duties. If they stuff things up or fail to consult the people on public asset sell offs, they get voted out next time.

The ALP party machine in recent days has released its review (by Bracks, Carr and Faulkner) the failure to consult more widely with the grass roots, the influence of factionalism and emergence of a "gang of four" type influence in Cabinet (Commonwealth). Maybe there is hope at the Commonwealth level but the NSW especially really needs a big broom.

The ALP considers "community consultation" as displays of what they propose to build - no correspondence entered into. I have seen 250 local residents absolutely livid at a community consultation meeting when the engineers and local polies presented to the residents on the other side of the river a bridge 2 meters higher than the existing causeway when what they expected was an all weather flood acess to their work and supplies. Floods normally run at 5 to 6 meters over the causeway for 6 to 10 days in flood time. In the 1960's during a major flood 300 meters of the gravel approach aproach was washed away and the only access was by boat. The residents expected a high level bridge reaching from bank to bank.

Spindoc please excuse me for being honest.
Your opinions have been of no worth to me for some time.
I rather value a more honest style,for almost every day I have posted here, I have taken the stick to NSW Labor, no doubt you did not mind that.
But when I high light my views, conservatives after the honeymoon will be bad you get offensive.
It is true handle is flogging a dead rat, not horse but rats,this election result is not a conservative victory.
It is self mutilation by the ALP my party.
Wonder IF EVER you SPIN DOC could bring your self to say that about your side, say Abbott who drags this country's politics down in to the sewer?
Handle you do more harm than good, on this issue it is ALP members/voters who are chucking us out.

Belly, you say "Wonder IF EVER you SPIN DOC could bring your self to say that about your side"

Now I know where you are going wrong. I don't have a "side". I call incompetence, failure, lies and ideology as I see it from all perspectives. No political persuasion has the divine right to be "right or wrong". All they have to do is make it work, not fail.

If you beleive the ALP has it right thats fine, just don't try to dress up your search for an exit plan as a change of heart because you don't need a reason to support the ALP, you just do.

a party like the Liberals -to my mind elitist, contrary in interests to the vast majority and a better friend to big business than it is to any average voter.
Handle,
First of all people with sense don't vote liberal, they vote coalition. Do you mean elitist contrary to the vast majority such as Judges, lawyers, Uni Professors & Academics ?
The coalition is pro business for the simple reason that it is business which keeps the ball rolling, not those who live off our taxes & then treat us with contempt. Business employs the vast majority & pays this majority for their efforts. What return do you get from academics for your dollar ?
People of the left expect goods & services provided by business but condemn business for producing them.
A littlebit insipid I'd say.

Spindoc a question.
Do you consider your self intelligent?
Would you like OLO readers to?
Are you aware of my thread here about after this election.
Did you see my one about power sell off of two years ago.
Have you read any of my post history .
My disgust with NSW Labor is here from 2005.
My WISH! for the party to be flogged in this election is too.
I have debated this, will I vote national [my seat is held by them], or greens.
Now in the game of verbal tennis one rule remains true always, truth out ways the product of the southern end of a north bound BULL.
Your proposition that I am fishing for an excuse for LABOR is not intelligent comment, is it?
Look at my post history as I did yours, spindoc think about it before posting .

Thought about my last post all night.
I hold myself accountable for every post.
Some times I think deeply truly and honestly I should stop posting.
One day I will.
I can not help being heated for me OLO is educational a chance to see what others think.
A chance to say what ever we want to.
It also,for me,is a chance to skate on thin ice,say just what I do think about my side of politics.
What I think,what I have said separates me from my lifetime loves the ALP and AWU,I could well be forgotten ,for loving both enough to say it like it is.
And the dark side of unionism.
Still clinging to the idea honesty and review builds both groups strengths.
I would never find a home in leftist forums, no mirrors exist there, just follow the leader cuddle the devil stuff.
But this badly educated but learning man see,s a fault in a few like spin doc and the others know who they are.
A need to run away from truth, slander for its sake, to jump in to print without learning about the subject or people.
I ask too much, some clearly do not have the ability to do other than paint the side they follow white and mine black.
Some where in between exists thoughts that may just take this country to better governments and better opposition.

Belly, “do I consider myself intelligent and would I like OLO readers to?”

Educated? Yes, for what that’s worth.
Intelligent? Can’t define it, can you?
OLO readership views? As long as I can challenge the thinking of others with reality I will continue to embrace the opportunity, opinion of my intelligence is irrelevant because no one can define intelligence.

More importantly I consider myself a realist. I have difficulty understanding how and why Australian’s, who are noted for their pragmatism, still subscribe to “tribal politics”.

You have indeed criticized the ALP; you have questioned many of their policies and you have expressed concerns about the “backroom shenanigans”. Your disgust however, seems to be focused upon the damage they have done to your beloved ALP and AWU. So rather than review the reasons for your tribal alignment, you seek refuge in a “similar” disposition in the Nationals or Greens.

To which I would suggest, that I expect that our government of the peoples’ choice, should be capable of formulating, costing, implementing and justifying policy that is balanced and beneficial to all Australians against the needs of the Nation at that time. The next question I would ask myself is which political persuasion or combination is best equipped to achieve this. If in my view, that was the ALP/Independent/Greens coalition, I would indeed vote for it.

And yes, I did vote for Bob Hawke and I do think his government met the criteria by which I judged his performance.

Unfortunately, at the last election and in spite of the loss of its majority, a cobbled together government has emerged that is now utterly compromised and is incapable of delivering against my criteria for effective governance.

If you cannot align the principles and ideology of your tribal politics with what is on offer, you have the same choices as every other Australian. You can align yourself with the next best failing tribe or you can vote for change. Whining about the “failings” of your tribe and trying to lay blame won’t cut it

Spin doc not a bad post,in fact you are quite right you may rebut any one.
However you get a little far from my reality's.
I fear the greens, must do.
While not fearing the independents think they get too much power.
One vote one value would see my party win nearly every time, not good for them or our country.
A party must be focused on constant improvement.
Now if you understand my issue, this country would be best served by a DOUBLE DISSOLUTION ELECTION, you can see the excuses you wrongly claim, quite wrong and uninformed do not exist.
Mate are you Aware our greatest union, the AWU is in no way hurt or injured by this government, that our leadership played a big roll in trying to fix federal Labor by removing Rudd's do nothing leadership.
The best out come in recent history for the party I love will be this impending thrashing,would you think that is bias?
Obied,should be taken on a one way harbor bridge walk, for my party's good, should have been the day after he first entered the upper house.
I see your point I am totally biased totally and forever expect only the best to lead and serve my party.
Am banking on this life time low to be the tonic that finds a way forward.
And my other sin? big one stand by.
I dislike party's with 12% of the vote controlling policy, I would rather both sides be held accountable and gee hard as it is understand both have better leaders and policy's but are unable to change.
I am content to think far differently than you, your post in rechtubs thread put me right off