Recently our government hired a 747 to get 'citizens' out of Egypt, there was no mention of payment by the passengers or whether they were tourists or were living in Egypt.

Only a few years ago we went to all sorts of expenses to get thousands of 'citizens' out of Lebanon and fly them to Aus. These people had been living in Lebanon and had no assetts in Aus, so we gave them Centrelink benefits as well. Who knows where these people are now?

I can see individual benefits for those with dual citizenship, but does Australia get any advantage from allowing dual citizenship. If not, why do we keep this costly advantage for a few.

Banjo:

Prior to 4 April 2002, Australian citizens who became citizens of another country lost their citizenship automatically. Australia currently allows its citizens to hold dual nationality - the advantage for Australia is primarily a financial one. If an Australia citizen owns land or property or inherits overseas assets or is eligible for any sort of pension from another country - the Australian social benefits are automatically decreased for that person - thus saving the Australian government quite a bit.

Banjo, sorry but they did not pay, proud tradition of most western country's.
Holding a British passport once was enough to let the vilest fool get help.
Who ever they are, from what ever ethnic back ground bring them home.
Have you considered this ,if the two, so far, planes came and only five passengers had been Australian born tourists,would you leave the dual citizens on the tarmac?
Evidence here, if you look, no government no side of politics is free from badly thought out complaints, we some times, not the politicians are the problem.

Lexi,
Thanks for the date of April 4 2002, is that when Australian citizens were allowed dual citizenship?

I have not heard the financial argument before and am sceptical about us gaining any advantage there. All pensioners in Aus have to regularly submit details of assetts and income to Centrelink and their pension is adjusted accordingly. This includes property assetts and income, bank accounts and applies to ALL pensioners.

Belly,
Although the situation regarding the status of those 'citizens' that we just flew out of Egypt is unclear, the matter regarding those we got out of Lebanon a few years is not.

You choose to ignor this and there were thousands of them. We even hired a ship, part way, and then flew them to Aus. They were living permanently in Lebanon and had no Australian assetts. We even had to hold seminars so Centrelink could advise them how they could help. This was far more than rescuing a few stranded tourists.

I seems that some people go back to live in their birth place and some collect our pension as well. Then if there is strife there, we must get them out. Seems the only thing we get from this is the bill. The advantages to individuals is clear but not for Australia. Ethnicity has nothing to do with this.

Banjo:

The information that I quoted I obtained from the Parliamentary Library in Canberra - you can google it. Apparently if people have dual citizenship and are receiving social benefits from overseas - (income and assets) Centrelink does indeed adjust the amounts that they will receive from the Australian Government - and they will be considerably less than if they weren't receiving social benefits from overseas. In that way - the Australian Government is saving taxpayers' money.

Come on Lexi. These people fly back to Oz regularly to maintain their access to our pension.

They cost us a fortune, not save any, just as they always have. They will continue to, while the political left believe they can gain a vote from them.

It would be easy to jump in to the water with you Banjo, and hasbeen too.
No way it is allowed to say what is on my mind on this matter PC is watching.
But I will say this, I commend the government for both yesterdays bring back todays, and the many more times they will do it,any government.
I have views strong ones, about any waste in our social security system.
We desperately need a review of it all, not axing, not unfairness just tightening up.
Lebanon was no different than Egypt.
Remember any government rules in all our names every choice they make will upset some.
But far more would be upset if we said get your self out,as race seems are a reason some are unhappy with these flights consider this.
If we follow the wrong path here we are on display to the world, bet other country's did the same.

Belly,
Don't try and make this a debate along political party lines, as it is not. Downer was the Foreign Minister when the evacuation of the Lebanon 'Aussie citizens' took place. Now the current gov has evacuated 'Aussies' from Egypt. Hey, I think there is far more likelyhood of Aussie tourists in Egypt than Lebanon.

Lexi,
It matters nought to Centrelink as to where a pensioners assetts and income come from, when details are given and pensions adjusted.

I will say however that pension applicants are asked if they are entitled to pension from an overseas country. They apparently then see if some of that can be recouped. This has nothing to do with dual citizenship. A permanent resident is entitled to Centrelink payments.

Banjo and Hasbeen:

I'm not sure that you can make statements like - all permanent residents are eligibile for Centrelink payments - I believe that it depends on the circumstances. For some payments there is a 2 year qualifying period. Also - Australian pensions are usually paid at a proportional rate outside Australia and as top-up pension in Australia. That is any pension you receive from another country will generally reduce your Australian pension dollar for dollar. In any case as I've stated previously - google Centrelink - it's all there on their various websites.

If a dual-citizen on an evacuation plane just hears that word "Centrelink", and that they would have to deal with it once on Australian shores, s/he would rather jump out into the ocean.

Just my 2c...

Banjo, I invite you, and three others, to review that statement.
Can you possible think I bought politics in to this subject?
It is and always will be a political statement.
I did not wrap my arm around Gillard, knew it was your team in Lebanon.
Confront this, life is politics.
A statement about ANYTHING a government does in our name is politics.
Be self assured, have your say, disagree with me,any one, but respect your own words enough not to use them to rebut others right to,,do just as you are doing.
my opinions are my views, nothing else so surely are yours.
Within the last 40 posts I have said Gillard is a flop, NSW is going to rightly, throw its government on the trash heap.
But at least ten times in that time my balance,understanding of politics , ability to think, and education has being questioned, by folk who NEVER once questioned their side.

Belly,
Have a look at the last sentence of your first post on this thread.

belly,
I notice in your last post You further bring party politics into the issue. Please read my opening post and you will see ther is no mention or suggestion of politics.

I am asking if there are any advantages to Australia in allowing dual citizenshp.

I further note you say 'your team' meaning I belong to a political party. I do not and am quite cynical about all our political parties and our politicians.

Dual citizenship is one of those things that doesn't benefit a society only individuals who like sitting on the fence for obvious reasons. I say, either you're a citizen of a country & your allegiance is to that country. One thing I would like to see is a straight forward reversal to your former citizenship should you not be happy in the new country. Having two passports is too much of a loop hole.

Banjo I stand by that last line and my every comment here.
I take a far different view than you on this issue.
Find no Merritt in it at all, maybe I am wrong.
Just maybe you are.
Those planes flew under both governments and if the question was put it is my view very few indeed would say do not send them.
Show me,highlight,how such an action is not linked to politics.
IF your thread was not a criticism of the decision to bring them home who are you upset with?
Individual, are those thoughts help also for the English who hold both?
I can not find a reason to support an idea that is against every practice of the western world.
We all however have the right to our thoughts, even if they appear to be bizarre.

Belly,
I guess you are right. Duel citizenship is a political decission made by government and supported by the opposition. Like the 'baby bonus' it was put on by one mob to gain a few votes and not removed by the other mob, for fear of losing a few votes.

So the issue of dual citizenship and the baby bonus is simply vote catching. There is no consideration as to whether either is good for Australia. Both are a costly exercise that benefits a few individuals and no advantages for the rest of the population.

Just because both major parties agree on a policy or action, does not make it right. They are supposedly elected to represent the people which they seem to ignor between elections.

No wonder one is cynical. It is obvious why no one has posted any advantage that dual citizenship brings to Aus, there is none.

Why all this undue cruelty?

I have dual citizenship.

I am Australian now, but I retain my old citizenship so that I can visit my elderly parents overseas at any time when they need me and be able to take care of them for extended periods if necessary with no visa limitations.

What have I done to you, Banjo, that you want to punish me so?

I welcome your dual citizen ship, and say sorry for Banjo, he is probably a very nice bloke, I am sure he is.
We live in the spider Webb of our own making, politics has became a game of one up man ship.
Politicians have become more aware than ever, maybe by falling at the feat of Americas Republicans, truth is not needed to stirr trouble.
Many, too many of us are only to pleased to fire at any chance a round or two at supporters of that other mob, I sin here too.
Baseless and finding no real support, that is my view of this thread.
Right now parliamentary question time is in progress.
If this question was put, should Australia allowed dual passports.
I am willing to bet not one hand, unless it was the family first senator, lost and unaware of his surroundings, voted no.
We are however free to say thankfully, what we want here I do not want my country to become xenophobic.

Belly,
You can do better than call others names or imply they are xenophobic.
That was CJM's style and the term was a favotite of his.

I don't dislike Yuyutsu but do find some of his comments silly and don't bother replying. He has a right to his views. So don't say sorry on my behalf, I have every right to my views whether you agree or not.

My question is still, What advantage is there for Australia to allow dual citizenship? Simple question. Did it occur to you that the lack of response indicates no one can show advantage and the majority of posters here cannot find fault in what I have said.

You say you welcome dual citizenship, but do not say why. Funny you agree with something but not know why. Suggest it is simply because your party says so. That is hardly a considered reason. Maybe you are not capable of thinking outside your parties policies.

You ignored the 'baby bonus' example, so lets try another. what about high immigration, both major parties agree with that, what say you?
Do you have an opinion or just follow the party line.

You see I don't have a team as you call it. I think for myself and I dissagree with high immigration, mainly because we cannot supply the infastructure, water, roads and transport, etc. for the present population. Yet the fools in Canberra keep loading more and more people on us.

As Lebanon showed and now Egypt, accomodating those with dual citizenship can be an expensive business, so am I missing something? Surely there must be more to it than simply saving Yuyutsu, and others, the slight inconvienience of obtaining a visa if he wants to visit his aged parents.

Dual citizenship appears to be a rort that is costly to Australia.

"What advantage is there for Australia to allow dual citizenship?"

- What advantage is there for Australia to allow owning pets?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow having friends?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow going on holidays?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow listening to music?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow practicing religion?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow living in comfort?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow eating fancy foods?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow wearing fancy clothes?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow owning property?
- What advantage is there for Australia to allow sleeping more than 6 hours a night?

Nay, Australians should only be allowed to work, work and work, till they drop dead: all other privileges are costly to Australia. Shooting the lazy ones who work too slowly is beneficial to Australia because it is the cheapest way to encourage Australians work harder and achieve the Great Australia of our common benefit.

I am sorry about this Banjo, but retreat is not an option.
Do you wish your comments to be regarded as sound?
Am I to believe you think before posting.
Can you understand all views have a right to air.
You join an exclusive group this morning.
I want you to reconsider you child like question.
MATE you surely know, I do have the same rights you claim for your self.
Are your words, the question do I have opinions a slur or can it be? that you truly want, from a poster who has so often challenged his own party an answer?
I truly hope you only wanted to insult me, if not further debate with you is wasteful you just would in that case not understand.
Dual citizen ships are no threat to us is it true in fact the thread was about bringing Australian passport holders home, has the ethnicity of both mentioned groups any thing to do with your heated insults.

Once again, always wise to place 'one self' in another person's shoes; non Australian, Australian or any person. All of those people innocently caught up in the riots of Egypt were visiting for different reasons.

Yuyutsu and Belly spot on (remind me there are fellow Aussies around who would walk past me after flying off my mountain bike or sitting injured in a vehicle) somewhere if it cost them anything. Yet how many people have myself and others helped where it has involved risking my life, their lives and dollars..........

Question for Banjo and Hasbeen - if you require assistance from an 'Australian' SES volunteer, the bush fire brigade, or AFP at any stage, how would you know, if one of these people assisting you in the future, was not trying to return from Cairo or anywhere in Egypt from an overseas posting or visit in their work capacity.

At any rate, compassion should be the top priority in assisting people when we are able to do so.

I know should have done some research first but it just came to mind.
Would Russel crow born in NZ have dual citizen ship?
With out much thought now how about the many we claim as Aussies born there.
Seen that American born star we claim, has he two pass ports?
Our prime minister if she wished, watch the slur that brings, could have two.
I look one day to a world that is one , not reason to divide.
Thanks WAU I would help you and both without a seconds thought, but fear some would not.

weareunique,
You picked the wrong organization relating to my community service. I have 45 years direct involvement with Busfire Brigades and have held most positions in a voluntary capacity.I have done my bit for the community.

If you think compassion is the main criteria for getting people out of Egypt and Lebanon. Then, by your standard, we should take all and sundry that wish to leave, and keep going back until there is no one else wanting to leave, irrpesective of nationality. The world would love us.

I have heaps of compassion for others, but can't stand, thieves, welfare cheats and rorters, and that is exactly what the majority of those we evacuated from Lebanon were, rorters. Their alliegence to Australia was such that they went to live in a foreign country permanantly, and some collected our social welfare as well. Then when things turned sour for them they 'demanded' that we rescue them. That is a rort!

I also have compassion for refugees, but not for the fraudsters and cheats that come by boat from Indonesia, after flying halfway around the world and paying smugglers far more than the airfare to Aus. The genuine refugees are either stuck somewhere or, if they have the money, fly here and then apply for asylum.

The Lebanon exercise demonstrated what a rort the dual citizenship can be and the government then should have acted to stop it. Now we have a likely similar thing on a smaller scale in Egypt.

As for Belly, he will publicly support anything that is Labor policy. He may argue against things in the party room but support the party line outside. That is what good party members do. He cannot give reason for his support for dual citizenship, so his compassion is brought into question. I would expect nothing less than he follow the party line

Banjo,

I am not asking for your compassion.
I am not asking you to evacuate me if in trouble overseas, and if you do so anyway, I expect to fully reimburse your expenses out of my own pocket.

All I say is, what right on earth have you to take away from me a piece of paper which happens to be very useful in my circumstances?

Note that an Australian could be living overseas with or without such piece of paper - they could have a sole Australian citizenship but be living as a permanent-resident elsewhere. My piece of paper does you no harm!

Sorry Bazz lost every last bit of respect for you, once gone never to return.
You make a claim you should know is untrue.
Totally for the world to see you tell an untruth.
It is clear, any one can see, I get in to my side often in public,my threads are often for just that reason.
I have to ask can anything you say be believed?
You SURELY KNOW EVERY PARTY IN THIS COUNTRY SUPPORTS DUAL CITIZENSHIP.
I forever hold my self accountable for my every word.
Your self confidence Sir is miss placed, under valuing your opponents while over valuing you own is folly.
I would expect some very entrenched conservatives to agree that I have opinions good and bad about my side.
Bazz, find my post this day in Abbott pm by what ever, tell me my words he did not want to insult a dead soldier came from an ALP robot.
I doubt Sir you have the ability to understand just how wrong and insulting your baseless comments are.
Once I greatly respected you, would turn the other check ten times but not ever again for you unless, and I doubt it, you are man enough to withdraw that untruth.
This comment more even than being told I and my party are pedophiles is the most insulting thing ever said to me here.
I take my right to rebut it ask your self bloke why you went that low?

My Friend do not let Bazz do to you what he did to me upset you.
Like him I am a ham radio operator,did not quite get 45 years up in Bushfires but put in to many other good groups.
19 years radio with Australian Iron man at Foster before it went north.
Did not do it to crow, never marched in Sydney it is one of life's pleasures to help for its own sake.
Bazz was doing great work in our hobby , but he will not look here,just maybe the once good bloke no longer can.
It was his team Howard who bought those Lebanese home.
I have never heard ANY EVIDENCE THAT THEY ALL HAD PERMANENT HOMES THERE.
Should we not bring them home, is race a reason for not caring for our own, is bigotry involved in Bazz STAND.
I am less than a fan of Muslims, not hiding it, but Egypt is the other concern leading Bazz to brand me and LABOR for bringing them home.
In fact in stating his dislikes he charged me with blind support for Labor yet it is him, very few others who do not except dual citizenship.
I can not pass up the CRIMSON STUPID STATEMENT about thieves ext on what evidence.
This thread dispite its Authors denial is about politics and hate, xenophobia shines clearly .

The claims and statements of this threads author are strong.
And not shared by most Australians.
That Bazz is your right.
As it is mine to defend myself.
I would have thought you could at least answer my claims.
Your comment needs an answer.
Are only those who say what you find favor with to be considered to have opinions not bought about by political affiliations?
I await your reports on your opposition to your sides plans and policy's having reviewed you post history I am unable to find them.

belly ,
Sorry for the delay in posting, but i was out all day helping a neighbour, we had a few beers after and time got away.

Since I cannot see a Bazz posting here, I am assuming you are referring to me and the reference seems to indicate that you think I also post here under the name Bazz.

You are suffering from delussion and barking up the wrong tree. I have only one name here, which is Banjo. I think it is against the rules to use two or more. In any case i wouldn't have the skills to do so, i am flat out doing what i do now. Wouldn't one need two passwords and two email addresses, so how is that arranged? If you have doubts then by all means ask the moderators to look into it, you have my blessing to do so.

Again you seem hell bent in bring party politics into the issue. I said before that Downer was the minister when the Lebanon rorts were exposed and the governments have since had ample time to rectify and stop the rorts, but they have not.

I notice that again you are unable to give reason for your support for dual citizenship, so again I suggest it is simply you following your party line.

I have not bothered to look up who Bazz is and what his posts are like and i have not, as i recall, had any debate or conversations with him. I take it he is a poster on ONO.

What ever makes you think that i have party connections or support any party is news to me, perhaps you can enlighten me. I critisize both major parties and the greens when i see fit.

Just a couple of items.

I may be wrong but I believe that the Australian Government back charges Citizens it repatriates from overseas for the direct expense. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Secondly, I am always uncomfortable with Australian Pensions that are paid overseas for excessive periods.

However, my reason is the loss to the economy of the multiplier effect of the spending of an Australian pension in the Australian economy.

A pension fully spent in Australia is turned over at least 4 times in circular movement through the economy. It almost pays for itself.

Look at it this way, we get excited if an overseas tourist spends $250 a week as a boost to the economy. A pensioner is more value if we consider them, economically, as a long term permanent tourist that spends $250 a week.

On a side issue, maybe the real financial value of dual Australian Citizenship is when the dual citizen calls on the Australian Health and Pharmaceutics schemes after years of overseas residence.

Finally, a few links that may have other similar issues involved.

http://benefitof.net/benefits-of-us-citizenship/

http://benefitof.net/benefits-of-dual-citizenship/

http://benefitof.net/benefits-of-irish-citizenship/

ok I got it wrong, wrong poster.
my fault and for it I say sorry.
Are you still sure I am unable to think for myself,that my comments are the ALP,S?
Again, no way around it,I got it wrong very wrong,remain upset at every word you said about me.
But owe you and Bazz an apology here it is.
I will be much more careful in future every remark I directed at Bazz still holds for you,
Your words still get me heated and I have to ask this can you believe it still?

Belly,
apology accepted. I have been around too long to get offended by what another poster may say about me, as one who opposes the ideology of multiculturalism I have been called more names that you could think of. Show me why I am wrong to say you are following the party line on this issue and I will retract.

Dicko,
I never thought about the prospect of citizens living permanently overseas and then if their health fails, coming back here to gain benefits of our health scheme. If there are any figures held on that you can bet they would be well hidden. All I know is that the evacuation of our citizens from Lebanon was costly and should have instigated measures to stop such rorting. Still your suggestion of such a practice means we lose the benefits of the pension spent here and then the bills for health care on top of that.

No wonder people take risks to get here. Seems a high price to pay for us being part of the global villiage.

Is there not anything where Australia reaps a benefit?

Banjo thanks, for excepting my sorry hope Bazz will too,
Both have claimed I talk only my party's line it offends me still.
But the rage it generated made a fool out of me, I except that.
Bloke my thoughts are not my party's, I would be removed from it if my views got full airing.
I have made my self unavailable for this state election, appeared in News print,print reminding the new Premier in waiting to stop insulting the federal government, understand Labor voters are going to vote for him, and he can only drive us to the greens if he continues to fight unneeded fights.
My thoughts are different than yours on multiculturalism, but that too is far from my party's policy's.
I believe a religion and its followers has given rise to the German and British leadership saying just what I think, but being unable thanks to political correctness to distinguish between race and religion.
I am proud to have posted hundreds of posts deeply insulting some in my party. but still look for balance in your post history.
Consider this please, if I said your thoughts are not yours, devalued your ability to think for your self,would you be upset.
I am not rich but my treasure is my honor, my insistence on saying what I truly think, and knowing I get it wrong some times.

I have had a lot of time to review this Banjo.
I do you know, look at my wrongs too.
I am a bit unhappy you never responded to my last post.
But I also MUST try harder.
See I expect all comments to be based on understanding, information about the subject, and a balance.
[We all have a few just that we do not expect such from ]
My sorrow is built around that, I expected far too much from you.
Your insult should have been ignored it was baseless and I should have seen it that way.
Never too late for me to learn.