Dear davidf,

Perhaps it is not the idea you are railing against but more it's application, or more accurately those who apply it.

I get the sense that for you Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Marxism etc would all have expressions somewhere in the world, or at some time in history, that you could applaud.

I offer this as a debate point, and I am not in any way trying to offensive, but I am going to accuse you of being a touch elitist.

If Christianity can be considered worthy in those who have thought deeply and acknowledged its failings or Marxism in the Kibbutz or a sense of the 'commonwealth' in democracies then perhaps these ideas are not innately 'evil'.

But isn't expecting those outside those groups to not sup from the same fount exhibiting the same us/them mentality you have condemned?

Add these ideas to insular societies without the corrective influences of a broader community or allow an organisation like the Catholic Church to take ownership of Christianity, or the Bolsheviks to do the same with communism and we can expect nothing less than a distortion of the idea, often unrecognisable to the original proponents. (How much different would our view of Christianity be if the ideas of the Cathars had prevailed over the Catholic Church?)

But banning ideas or trying to reserve them for the few is not what we want to be seeing. We need to accept that their propagation in communities that do not enjoy a 'world view' is sometimes going to incur abhorrent leanings but perhaps we need to be combating the ignorance rather than the idea.

CSTEELE.... your comments are becoming.... wiser by the moment.

From the Newsmedia:

Re Brendan O'connor

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/brendon-lee-oconnell-sentenced-to-three-years-jail-for-racial-hatred/story-e6frg143-1225997622331

THE Jewish victim of a verbal racial attack says a three-year prison term given to the man who called him a "racist, homicidal maniac" outside a Perth supermarket is not enough.

"You have a religion of racism, hate, homicide and ethnic cleansing," he said in the video. (said O'connor)

David F here.

//Evangelical Christianity and radical Islam want to make them like us. When they want to stay as they are EC & RI may feel justified in murdering the infidel.//

Let's repeat that last bit for effect "MURDERING THE INFIDEL".....

If O'connor gets 3 yrs for insulting Jewish religion... claiming it is a 'religion of homicide'... and David here is claiming Evangelical Christianity may lead to "murdering the infidel".....

Can anyone spot the difference ?

Is it not just one of degree? How bad is 'too' bad ?

For me.. the moment "murdering the infidel' is connected with my own tradition.. it's wayyyy tooooo far!

David...I'm still waiting for a much better worded version of that insulting phrase, and an apology.

I'm waiting for an apology too, but I don't hold out much hope of getting one.
Davidf is certainly a master of the us them mentality.

david say sorry?

Once Al admits murder by

Evangelicals

"Exclusive Brethren"

Would require a "We" and "They"

Relationship, no?

Dear csteele,

Why be afraid that I am elitist? Elitism is defined as government by a group of superior people. I don't think direct democracy is possible for a group much larger that 7 or 8 people. Any government larger than that must be a subset of the group. Any government has a bureaucracy, legislature, party or other apparatus. These constitute an oligarchy. It seems reasonable that this oligarchy be composed of superior people. There should be some criteria to define superiority and some mechanism to select those who fit the criteria for superiority. I favour that, and therefore am an elitist.