oooops, I meant your father-in-law's comment.

Dear davidf,

Good to see you still rattling the cage.

Taking a slightly less pessimistic view of modern times might allow us to reflect on what should be regarded as a great era of cooperation. The EU is a case in point. Though not without continuing problems to me it is incredible that peoples and nations who were at each others throats half a century ago are now working together in ways that Europe has never seen before.

The UN and even its predecessor the League of Nations are relatively recent inventions in the history of nation states, one that seems to be enduring.

Are these not evidence of curbed ideology, religion and racism? Although in the case of the EU the admission or not of Turkey will be instructive.

Dear AGIR,

I really hope you don’t hijack what promises to be a good thread with your pontifications and I also hope what I am about to say doesn’t contribute to them however I need to ask, don’t you even read your own links?

The answer to your question about how Hitler’s attitude was changed was right in front of you. He was exposed to the views of a leading anti-semetic Dr Lueger, the Major of Vienna. He is the one who formed the CHRISTIAN Social Party, coined the phrase ‘The Jewish Question’, and moved in high ‘clerical circles’, That is how the infection spread to give Hitler his ‘most significant transformation’.

To quote;

“In any case, I slowly came to know from these causes about the man and the movement which determined Vienna's destiny at that time: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party.

When I came to Vienna, I stood opposed to both.

The man and his movement seemed "reactionary" in my eyes.

My common sense of justice, however, moderated this judgment in proportion to the opportunity I received to get to know the man and his work. Slowly, my just judgment grew into unabashed admiration. Today I see the man, even more than before, as the greatest German mayor of all times.

How much of my basic outlook was changed by this altered position toward the Christian-Social movement!

If by this experience my views with regard to antisemitism also fell to the passage of time, then this was surely the most significant transformation of all for me.

How much of my basic outlook was changed by this altered position toward the Christian-Social movement!”

I beg davidf’s forgiveness for the digression but it does go to the us/them question, okay possibly more a me/him one.

Apologies.

It always fascinates me that the millions of unborn murdered babies are never mentioned in these sorts of one sided rants. I suppose it is very convenient as this secular dogma is the major course.The dishonesty in this rant is also blatant. No bible believing Christian would ever kill a homosexual. They obviously hate the fruit of such perversion but would not consider killing someone for their sin as we all deserve death. If Evangelical Christians are such great haters why is it the left who commit the most violence and often in the name of peace? I think Davidf is stuck in his dogma as much as any militant Islamic.

Dear CSTEELE.. you are not off topic as there has never been a greater example of 'us/them' than the one of which we speak.

Yes..I DO read the links.. in fact I've read the whole thing from his childhood up to the end of volume one.

My purpose was to discover what changed the man from the original to the final extreme I showed to you.

But what you fail to see is the reality of what Hitler faced.. being true of our own time. I provided clear and unmistakable links to the same things.. I'm sure Dr Luger would have been pointing such things out to his young protege. It is clear from the unfolding of the book, that he did not jump into things on the spur of the moment..and who (apart from very diligent research) are you to claim his change in outlook was unfounded ?

Was the Social democratic movement dominated by Jews ? a resounding yes.
Was the mainstream media also dominated by them ? a resounding yes.
Was the 'adult' sleaze industry domimated by them ? a resounding yes.

Can we be sure it was softer in motive and tone than the clear links I provided from Jewish writers of today?... only research would answer that.

But at least you can step out of ideology for a moment and try to honestly answer one simple question.. please.

Given the tone and motive behind the Pornographers.... at the Management/marketing end...and the star end... as Abrams outlines..
i.e. to 'subvert' based on an 'atavistic hate' of Christian authority....

QUESTION
Do you not see how a person could easily develop a strong feeling of hatred toward such people ? (I'm not talking of a whole race, but of those people in that business)

In my view.. Hitler went wrong when he extrapolated his hatred of these individuals or segments..to the whole group on racial lines.
I have no problem with 'removing' the likes of which Abrams speaks for say "Life with no parole"

Did YOU read "How Jewish is hollywood?" ?

Dear ALGOREisRICH,

You wrote some interesting posts. You mentioned Hitler’s reasons for hating the Jews and apparently found them understandable and reasonable. Many Christians have agreed with you.

You wanted me to apologise for writing: “The Holocaust was partially a consequence of hundreds of years of Christian resentment at Jews wanting to continue to be Jews.” You called it “incitement.” That is a fact of history that Christians who have opened their eyes to the Christian past freely admit.

Two Christians who have done so are Anglican Bishop Spong and Lutheran Basilea Schlink. They want to confront the Christian past, admit it, make amends and promote a Christianity of generosity and goodwill.

The Bible was written by men, and some of its passages express the retrograde feelings of its time. To take the whole Bible literally is to assume that those who wrote it are faultless. Bishop Spong rejects that assumption and points to sources of intolerance and bigotry in Scripture.

http://johnshelbyspong.com/sample-essays/the-terrible-texts/

RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY:

“No one comes to the Father but by me” (John 14:6)

This text has helped to create a world where adherents of one religion feel compelled to kill adherents of another. A veritable renaissance of religious terror now confronts us and is making against us the claims we have long made against religious traditions different from our own.

ANTI-SEMITISM:

And the people answered, ‘His blood be on us and on our children’” (Matt. 27:25)

No other verse of Holy Scripture has been responsible for so much violence and so much bloodshed. People convinced that these words conferred legitimacy and even holiness on their hostility have killed millions of Jewish people over history. Far more than Christians today seem to understand, to call the Bible “Word of God” in any sense is to legitimize this hatred reflected in its pages.

Basilea Schlink was a German who wished to atone both for the deeds of her countrymen in WW2 and her Lutheran coreligionists. She founded the Evangelical Sisters of St Mary.

From their website you may see an admission of Christian history and a determination to atone:

(continued)