We all have been asked to prove we are who we say we are.
Why are we asked mostly for our drivers license?
Not long ago truck drivers had two, maybe three, hard as it now is some still do.
Doubt they can have so many drivers log books but how can a Federal government department trust that document more than a handful of others.
Dislike my privacy being pushed by such.
But having produced my rates bill power phone, birth certificate, purchase and deeds for my home, medi care card Bank statement and card , the list goes on, could only be excepted after I gave them my drivers license why?

Belly:

Just a guess, but is it because a license has a photo ID? Some people don't drive and don't have a driver's license and frequently have great difficulty in proving their identity. Another alternative si a national passport but not everyone has one and many who do - they're out of date. I believe that in the past a National ID Card with a photo has been proposed but repeatitive governments have rejected it due to the fact that it wasn't popular with the voters.

Maybe we should have a similar identity-kit to that of the queen and have our image on the back of a coin? (joking, sorry - couldn't resist it). :-)

Hi Belly,

This comes up in my line of work all the time,
and Lexi's comment is on the mark. It's all about
photographic identification and signature, and your driver's licence
is the most common document most people have that displays both.
For those who don't have a driver's licence, State
governments issue "proof of age" cards that perform
the same function.

Interestingly, under the Privacy Act the only people
who can demand to see your driver's licence are the Police.
Technically, when you show your driver's licence, typically
as part of a 100-point ID check, you are doing so voluntarily
in order to establish your bona fides with an organisation,
in order to access goods and/or services that they provide.

There are always alternatives to showing your driver's licence
for identification purposes, but they're usually not as convenient.

Well Lexi it is true, both the photo and that they tried to get a national card in the past.
Hawk was the PM and prime mover in wanting it, I stood against it then maybe not now.
It was to be called the Australian card.
A hero public servant won that fight.
It ,or whatever we get, most likely the new Medicare card will be miss used too.
On ending my work I have seen some real silly over kill.
My Super fund got these documents from me, remember I am an existing member who identifies my self on entering scheme.
birth certificate, copy of rates notice, purchase details of my home, at least 8 other documents including photo of me on a right of entry card .
Only My license sealed the deal.
Right now, believe me, about 8% of interstate truck drivers have two licenses, in different names.
And no doubt real criminals can do what they did, get a fake license without a problem.
So reluctant as I am it may be time for the ID card for every one to be introduced.
Maybe the micro chip in the wrist.

Thanks talisman,and welcome.
I was putting my post together at the time you had yours under way.
What are those other ways please.
The 100 points apply to nearly every b card I produced and it is my understanding the police of my state and the RTA are the only people who have every right to my license.

Talisman:

Thanks for the information. I will pass it on at work. We should know about the alternatives that exist out there.

Belly:

I feel for you having to produce ID for something that you've been a part of for so many years. Gets a bit impersonal doesn't it? Who knows what the future holds for any of us in this department. With new technology surely there must be a better way because as you said getting a fake driver's license is no trouble for some people.

Security clearances are a lot of fun too these days - the information required to pass a clearance to work in some government positions (and private ones contracted by government) includes:

Various forms of identification
Travel history
Employment history including explanation for 'gaps'
Marital history/relationships/sexual preference/affairs
Bank statements
Expenditure and financial records
Information about investments
All details about close relatives
Contact with foreign nationals
Contact with anyone living overseas
Drug/alcohol use
Gambling
Online psuedonyms, Facebook etal, chatrooms
Numerous character and work references
Copies of bills and evidence of place of residence since birth (in some cases)
Psychological testing
and; a security assessment interview.

The list is endless and quite intrusive.

We are becoming an overtly big brother society and the irony is security clearances, while purporting to minmise risk as regards corruptibility, cannot ever guarantee confidentiality or suitability to access information.

Thanks Belly,

From memory a driver's licence is worth 40 points,
as are a Passport or an original Birth Certificate (not an extract).
These are often termed "Primary Documents".

Depending on who you're dealing with, you can make up
the 100 points with "Secondary Documents". These
include such documents as signed credit or debit cards,
Shooter's Licence, utility bills, mail addressed to you,
rates notices etc.

You're right about the RTA. Besides the Police, they are
the only others who have the right to demand to see your
driver's licence (but only if you're actually in charge
of a motor vehicle). Neither the Police or RTA can legally
demand to see your licence if you're just walking down the street.

It seems to me that the question of Proof of Identification
is an increasingy onerous issue in the 21st century,
sometimes ridiculously so. It's probably only a matter
of time before something like an Australia Card is
introduced, but that won't solve all problems. Any
document at all can be forged, as with the case of Interstate
Truck Driver's Licences as you indicate.

A bar-code on the forehead.
It's about time we had a national ID . But for some people it's all too much.
The defacto ID is your driving license, not every body has one.
The truck license is a Australia license now. Stops people having too many.
Doesn't stop having a car license in every state.
Privacy is all important, don't know why.
Your details are all over the place.

Thanks all, have told hold my hand up here I am near to the point of eccentricity here.
30 years ago my bank teller stole $1.800 from my account.
My fault, as I left the bank I got rid of my bank card receipts, in the banks rubbish bin!
About that time I stopped buying on credit, bought only what I could save for, in cash.
And around that time 1978,a Friend, family actually, wanted to help me buy a country home I was renting.
Asked me for,, you guessed drivers license all bank and card IDs.
It took me a very long time to get out of that debt, and I had to renew all those documents.
He took out a loan, but kept it.
I spent this week getting my things done, and while showing a JP my photo copy's and the real ones , she demanded ID!
Well she had every thing except my drivers license, so about to reach in my pocket and surrender my DL when her colleague said this is Allan, I have known him for many years, that was in a chemist shop, that has held and filled my prescriptions for 24 years.
I have more.

Yes the new Medicare card is going to be the Aussie card reborn.
And yes I was a fool, it hurt, for a while putting more than I should in to repaying those debts but it was great to finish.
Why do I dislike this ID form?
Why did I do it not call police? we do have black sheep in some family's.
My privacy is a concern no one ever can defraud me my pins are in My head not on paper I am constantly aware of safety issues.
Do not keep cash in my home or car, just the bank.
But maybe it is time we talked about the death of privacy,we the honest suffer all types of indignity because of criminals but they will always exist no matter what is done.
That chip, the one Christians fear, it would at least be between you and the machine and unless hand is cut off fool proof.

Usually when I get pulled up for random breath test/hassled for driving an older car, and they ask for my license, I say I'm not sure where it is (and often I genuinely dont). So far it has never been a problem. In order to get a QLD license, I had to provide a paper birth certificate that could have been easily dodgied up with a computer, because my NSW plastic hologrammed photo license wasnt considered adequate ID... So I reckon a lot of the time it is just petty ego-driven garbage.

I think you can be fined in NSW for not showing your license to a police man while driving.
I always do instantly.
It is an ego thing, has to be, I have two official birth certificates, lost one then found it.
Think about this, my super mob, copy on hand refused one of my originals, as it was too valuable to send in the mail.
Don't like it, do not trust Polly's in this area, is arjay here?
I think it may be a plot, to get us so upset we except the Aussie card.

Talisman,

You were sort of right but you should be referring to the State Act under which the drivers licence was issued. see here,

"Do I have to provide my Drivers Licence as ID? Are businesses allowed to record this information?

There is increasing demand for individuals to provide proof of identity in shops, clubs, associations and other private businesses and government agencies. NSW law (specifically, section 175(1) of the NSW Road Transport (General) Act 2005) states that an organisation can only ask you for your drivers licence if it is authorised by law (eg. the police). However, it also states that under certain circumstances an organisation can request to see a drivers licence.

Section 175 of the Act states that an organisation can request the production of a driver’s licence to verify your identity or age in the following situation:

* in connection with the supply of any goods or services, or
* in connection with the conferring of any right, title or benefit, or
* in other circumstances.

where it is reasonable for the person making the request to require evidence of the other person's identity or age.

Many organisations are covered by either state or federal privacy laws, which place limits on what personal information can be collected from you, and how your personal information can subsequently be used.

If the organisation does record your driver’s licence information, these privacy laws give you the right to access and correct your personal information held by government agencies or businesses. Find out more about different privacy laws in NSW."

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/privacynsw/ll_pnsw.nsf/pages/PNSW_04_faqid

contd from previous post..

Seniors would remember a time where almost anything was accepted as proof of identity and a Driver's Licence or Passport were the aces.

There is no plot to get people to accept the Australia Card and any party pushing it would have a death wish. However it would be very handy in deterring some of the fraud perpetuated against government. Citizens are rightly worried about the collection and misuse of information, which has occurred and will occur in the future. Ultimately it will come down to balancing risks.

Interestingly many people are unconcerned (which is incredible) about the data they are giving up daily on line and which is forever stored, while corporations wonder how to turn a buck from it.

Thanks for the clarification, Cornflower.
You're undoubtedly correct, but I think there's
a distinction between organisations being
"allowed to request" the production of a
driver's licence and the legal requirement
to produce one when demanded by a Police or
RTA Officer.

There's probably not much distinction in practice,
however, if the licence holder wants to access
goods, services or licensed premises. I think Belly
is also correct that it is compulsory to carry your
driver's licence while in control of a vehicle on
public roads. In my State you can be fined if you don't.

Also, I think I was wrong about the points value of
a driver's licence in a 100-point check. Passports and
original birth certificates are typically worth 70 points,
while a driver's licence is worth 40. So if you have
both a passport or original birth certificate and your
driver's licence, you clear the 100-point threshold.

They tell you not to smile on your drivers license picture these days to aid computer face recognition, even though they are supposedly not allowed to use this license picture for other purposes.

I was asked by a night club to scan my license which they would keep on file as a condition of entry. (They give you a bar-coded piece of paper that allows you entry next time. So I bid my friends goodbye and went home.

I think it's pretty dangerous for ex-crim bouncers to possibly have access to a database of women's photos and their addresses. There is no regulation of checks at all on the clubs that hold this information. They should be prevented from collecting this information.

Thanks Houellebecq,

You raise a very good example. I don't go to
nightclubs, but the potential ramifications of
allowing people of dubious character to digitally
scan your driver's licence are quite horrendous.
I wasn't aware that this practice exists.

Had I been in your shoes, I would have made
the same decision. ID theft is big business
these days, which is of course why regulations
are getting tighter and tighter.

You only have to buy a raffle ticket , and all of your info has flown.
I don't see what anyone can do with that information.
What would be the difference between a real name and address, as opposed to a fake name and address.
The phone book is full of it.

Talisman, Belly and others,
I inquired about the driver's licence matter some time ago.
The only people who can ask for your drivers licence is a police
officer or a person with whom you have had a motor vehicle accident.

Others such as bank clerks can ask you for an identification document
but they can not ask for a drivers licence. You may however offer your
licence to them as such a document.

This was put into the motor traffic act because the governement was
accused of bringing in Bob Hawkes Australia card by stealth.

I think we will need a card such as the Access card before long.

Gday Bazz I have not found that to be true mate.
In my work I got to travel a lot.
Stayed in hotels motels the lot, have been asked up front for my drivers license, and had it copied.
In a post here a few years ago I spoke of being asked to produce it at NSW state Labor conference.
Now my work life is over I can say it, very harsh and dictatorial women on desk would not take six years membership cards, because I had not signed them.
I won, but three of us took offense and for the whole weekend event we swapped those cards you have to wear around you neck wandering past those women.
Once a rather nice young girl went in as me!
In my workplace memorabilia I still have an others card he did not want to vote so swapped as I was staying, silly really
continued.

Bazz you most probably are right in law, but not practice.
Every visit to a club away from home sees me asked for my license,
That is the reason I dislike it.
Now we seem to be missing some thing here well documented advice is the government is trying to put a great deal of information in our new Medicare card it will be the next must show document bet on it.
I protect my privacy but it is far from easy if you must show every tom dick and harry your ID.

Belly, well that is the point.
Banks, etc etc ask for your drivers licence.
I pointed it out to one bank officer and she said she will ask for it.
I pointed out I could walk around to the police station and make a
complaint and they would act upon it.
They would have no choice but they are keen to keep control of those
sort of privilages.
She went silent on it then.
The local post office received a circular to all staff about this a
couple of months ago.

Where does your bank situation actually stand in a legal sense, though, Bazz?

To my mind, the bank isn't demanding to see your driver's licence - the bank is simply saying that, if you wish to conduct business with them, a driver's licence is necessary. Of course, if they are holding your money and refusing to give it to you, it is a different story - they are already conducting business with you and are now adding a new condition to your existing contract. I'm no expert in law (though I did do contract law many years ago at uni), but it seems to me that this would be a violation of the law.

I must say as the request is for a drivers license not ID we need to think about truth.
It is true, false DLs are not rare,Bazz would be aware of another federal government issued license I hold, not regarded as proof of ID.
We will end up with one national ID card, some will challenge it, me for sure, but it is coming.
Fraud alone is not the true reason.
Real crooks have every document and more.
My experiences are at the hands of people who just want to use power rather than brain.
Case in point, one month ago, armed with my card I entered the bank, only one, I had banked with for 30 years.
My wages in last two jobs had gone in over that time,I took enough to both live on and pay my bills out.
I wanted a withdrawal then to buy a car.
$10.000 had withdrawn twice that much once.
Now my pin and pass word did not impress this lady.
I informed her of the exact amount in account and the last amount put in, even how much super was coming.
SHE DEMANDED license!
Now she did not get it, growing band of customers got well entertained and I got support and my cash,staying with my bank but the lady is not a fan.

Otokonoko,
Where does your bank situation actually stand in a legal sense, though, Bazz?

Their staff breaks the law every time they ask.
They can protect themselves by asking for photo ID and hope you offer
the licence.

In NSW they cannot ask for a drivers licence.
I pointed out that their employer was putting them at risk by
instructing them to ask for a drivers licence.

I was in the post office yesterday and they asked for "Any ID document".
The post office is now aware.

Yes Belly we will get a multi purpose card sometime.
With the embedded chips and the use of encryption systems like PGP
each service would only be able to read its own partition in the chip.
It could be that the holder would have to enter a pin before it could
be read. In the health partition, emergency people such as ambos and
hospitals could enter a special pin.
You can see how versatile such a universal card could be.
Medicare, Medibank, financial services even as your petrol rationing card, Hi !
But never ever lose it !