I'd like some advice on what to tell
a friend who's not coping very
well. He's gone through a divorce and
he's having a difficult time emotionally.
Feelings of isolation and inadequacy
are prevalent. We're concerned about him
and would appreciate any advice from
anyone's that gone through this experience.

He's had to sell the large family home on the outskirts
of Melbourne. Which was in the bush - on several acres -
that he loved. He's now quite his job and
moved to rural Victoria and bought
a small suburban "dump," (as he describes it).
His children live in Melbourne (they're married with
families of their own). He's a teacher - and he visits
his children on most week-ends.

Any thoughts

Never easy foxy, at his apparent age even harder.
Understanding life its self is not over.
Not looking back, nothing can be changed.
Watch him please but only he can be the one to bring life back in to his life
Not even close to rare thing he should join a group who have been in his current place

Foxy, I was divorced 21 years ago. It didn’t take me long to see it as a blessing. I’ve stayed single and free ever since. In fact, I’ve had no desire to get married again and very little desire to have a relationship.

So, for your friend who has spent half his life married, raising kids and all that, I’d say that he should be looking forward to a freer simpler life, in which all manner of new possibilities open up.

As for downsizing from a large house on acreage to a small suburban place, again it opens up a whole lot more freedom, in terms of much less time and money being spent on maintenance and development.

I live in the rural residential outskirts of Townsville. It is great in its own way, but I’m looking forward to downsizing and living close enough to work to not have to drive every day. My next place will be a small urban house or perhaps a unit.

So, there can be a big positive aspect to downsizing.

I guess a lot of people would have a strong sense of shame about getting divorced, regardless of whether they have any regrets or not about how they might have contributed to it. But divorce is just so commonplace they shouldn’t be ashamed or feel like a lesser person.

Anyway, I’m very pleased that I was divorced early in my marriage when there no kids involved rather than have it drag on frustratingly for years and then end, when there were kids caught in the middle.

Cheers.

Foxy the thing in your friend's favour is that his children are grown up and married. That takes a big burden off his shoulders and also his ex wife's shoulders as well.

Ludwig a freer and simpler life doesn't "necessarily" equate with being unmarried.

Some people find freedom and simplicity within marriage. Foxy's friend may have been one of those people who were freed by marriage and felt at home and comfortable being closely connected with someone. We're all individuals and marriage can mean diametrically opposed things to different people, depending on one's needs, desires and experiences.

Foxy's friend is obviously of a mature age and well off enough to have his own home, even if it is a "dump". People like that can often hide the true extent of their depression, because they are able to provide for themselves all the basic necessities of life like food and shelter and transport. In other words, on the surface, it can appear that he's at least getting by. But beneath the surface, he could be close to drastic action: That's when people suicide, and their friends are left wondering what "really" happened.

Foxy, my advice is to offer emotional support, support and more support. If people feel wanted and needed then that gives them a much better chance of moving on. Simply just being there for someone can change a life.

Foxy,
My divorce left me feeling pretty hollow inside. I was fortunate that i had three kids that needed me and it kept my mind off things somewhat.
Time is the only answer that i have, try to keep busy and before you know it a year has passed and it dosen't hurt so much anymore.
In the end i like Ludwig have found it a blessing and have absolutely no interest in ever being married again. This has cost me a relationship since my divorce but no way never again.

Thanks to all of you for your sound advice.
I hope that you won't mind, but I'm going to
pass all of your posts onto our friend, because
what you're all saying is excellent. Personally,
I also feel that he could benefit from joining
some sort of a men's group. People who've been
through what he's now going through. I feel that
talking about it would help him. Of course we're
going to be here for him - and give him all the
emotional support that he needs. It was his wife
who asked for the divorce - she wants to "find
herself," whatever that means. He loved her deeply.

But as you say, his children are grown up, and
I also agree that's a blessing.

Foxy, I was just thinking about this very topic. I don't know how one copes because breaking up with your partner hurts, divorce hurts, and a hurting heart is about as deep as a hurt can go. But, your friend can survive something like this. He is very fortunate as Ludwig and Johnny30 pointed out, that his children have grown up. He does not have the moral dilemma about the impact divorce would have upon his children. That one is a huge moral dilemma, and one I have had to wrestle with. My children's father and I split up about 9 years ago, but continued to live in the same house because of the children who were about 6 and 9 at the time. In no way an ideal situation which I still agonise over, and which I am currently finding myself reevaluating. When it ended, I felt like a complete failure in everything, but I survived it. Your friend doesn't have to worry about the impact divorce will have on his children - more simple, less guilt ridden. Shame he had to sell his home in the bush, but living in a small place in rural suburban Victoria doesn't have to be a dump - good time to start turning it into his own little palace. It could be a great challenge. He is not working so he has the benefit of time. Life is rich with things to do, and ... women also live in rural suburban Victoria. He should get involved in the local community and meet some people, and who knows? He's a teacher, he will have lots he can share with the community. This may end up being the best thing that's ever happened to him. If he doesn't move on, it is quite likely that he will feel like a failure. When is he inviting you and a group of his friends around to dinner? You could all bring a plate and a bottle of wine. Warm up his place, and give him a reason to tidy up that little dump in the country.

Dear dotto,

Thanks for your super advice.

I was actually thinking of getting a few
of his friends together and we all go for
a drive to his home in rural Victoria.
He's only a couple of hours out of Melbourne.
Your idea about bringing a plate each (and
bottles of wine) is great. I'm also going to buy
him some fruit trees so he can start to work on
his garden - I'll ask a girlfriend
to make a few cusions for him (she loves to sew
and is talented at it) and as you said -
we'll try to inspire him to do positive things
with his time and life -
and encourage him to turn his "dump" into a
home.

Dear Foxy
With friends like you, my guess is that he's going to be fine.

Foxy, my husbands best mate has been in the same position- although his two sons are in their late teens.

We found that continuing to include him in all the social activities he was used to going to before the divorce helped him to keep a social life going. He tended to mope alone at home otherwise.

We were worried about his mental state, because his wife left him for another (very rich) man, and he had feelings of failure and guilt, as well as sorrow and anger.

I suggested he see a GP in town that specialised in mens health and psychiatry. He was tested for depression and found to be suffering from moderately severe depression.

He was started on anti-depressants, and now that it has been about 3 months down the line, he is starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel. He is smiling a little more now.

So my suggestion is to include him in social activities, and get him to see a good GP for a checkup.

Foxy, if he's interested in another lady, tell him to get involved in the horse world. 90% of the horse world is ladies.

Many of these are single, as their previous men left home to get away from the horses.

If he is not interested in another lady, tell him to buy one of the make, & model of car he wanted, but didn't get, because the kids came along. He can then get involved in the classic car movement, which takes more time anyone can spare. He won't have time to feel sorry for himself, & will have a lot of fun with all us other silly old fa*ts.

Ok Foxy, here is my 5c worth of wisdom :)

I actually had a very amicable and friendly divorce. We just wanted
different things from life, something we did not think about as
childhood sweethearts. That only emerge later. So reality had to
be dealt with.

It seems to me that people have false expectations of marriage and
relationships. Marriage is a social custom. It does not imply
ownership. Each of us remain free spirits. If somebody loves you,
that is a compliment and an honour, but not a right. They are
free to change their minds.

Life is not fair. I know some very hurt people, who misjudged
their partner, who also ignore the fact, as I have argued before
on OLO, that love and relationships are based on self interest.
If we ignore that reality, we are bound to get hurt.

Those Hollywood movies have alot to answer for, an evolutionary
perspective and understanding, make far more sense of the world.

If your friend really wants a friend for life, who never complains,
is always happy to see him, does not care if he makes a mess and
leaves clothes lying around, tell him to get a dog. They make
great companions

That's about the size of it.

Well said Yabby.

Yabby you wrote to Foxy, "if your friend really wants a friend for life who never complains, is always happy to see him, does not care if he makes a mess and leaves clothes lying around, tell him to get a dog".

I just re-read Foxy's posts and nowhere in those posts was there even the slightest hint that her friend was even remotely like that, or that his ex was like that.

Foxy,

If his income is limited it does cut out a lot of choices.

So far there haven't been many suggestions as to what he might do with his time and how he integrates with local society and develops a group of friends, yet there must be many who have addressed that problem.

He had to move and that cut a lot of ties.

From older relatives who have lost partners, it seems that lawn bowls is a good way to integrate. It is reasonably cheap, all are equal socially, there is the odd cheap meal and he can be around people without feeling obliged to consume a dozen drinks.

Cards is another way of making contacts although more limited than the lawn bowls.

If he really wants to get back into life and feel valued he should volunteer to visit men who are finding difficulty taking care of themselves through mobility problems (arthritis, you name it). The Christian churches that are so maligned on OLO are contacts and he will be warmly received. No cost to him, just go along with someone else to make a cheery visit to someone worse off. No prayers, God or whatever, just warm human company and maybe make a pot of tea.

There is also some work for nominal rates - he can try something that stretches his legs and lets him enjoy the outdoors for instance mowing some older person's lawn. Alternatively he could use his skills and help someone with their papers, letters and so on.

There must be other cheap interests that people have tried.

I have met some folk who turn out very bitter after a divorce. On the other hand I have met some that have become better having learnt how much sin can damage. I would personally encourage him to search out his Maker who can not only restore but also help him understand that even know people get hurt by other people in this life their is something much better in store for those who know Christ. Ultimately their is One we can trust who never lies or lets us down.

Focy,interesting topic. Your friend is lucky that his children are grown, necasue he will be able to move on without the millstone of the CSA dragging him down.

One of the most important things I'd suggest for him is that he must maintain a good relationship with his ex-wife. Yes, I know you're thinking "who hijacked anti's keyboard" but my single greatest regret is that I was unable to do so. Goodwill on both sides is critical.

Men's groups may be useful for him, but it depends a great deal on the particular group. Many are run by churches and have an overtly christian overlay (prayers, invitations to church functions, etc), while others are more practically oriented (woodworking, etc). What does he enjoy doing?

Maintaining old friendships, assuming he has close friends,is vital. Some men live their lives entirely within their relationship and work and simply have noone at all they can call "my" friend rather than "our" friend. My experience is that those "our" friends are mostly "her" friends and will have little to do with him other than in a token way.

I'd advise him against Suze's suggestion of medication for depression. Reactive depressions are often short-lived and can be readily helped with cognitive behavioural methods. Psychiatric medications have long lead periods and long tailing-off periods that mean they're not useful in the situation. Cipramil, a typical example, can take several weeks to start providing any benefit and stopping it can take several months of gradual dose reduction. Suze may like to ask a doctor about that.

All-in-all, he needs to grasp the nettle and start living his life for him, rather than his family. How long he takes to do that is unpredictable. I hope he manages it quickly.

I'd like to take this opportunity to Thank each and
everyone of you for responding to my thread with
such excellent advice. As I stated previously,
I'm making notes and will
take all of it on board, and (given the opportunity)
pass it all on to our friend.
You came up with suggestions that would not have
occurred to me and I'm very grateful. He's a very close
friend (he was best-man at our wedding), so of course
we intend to maintain our relationship with him, and
be there for him in every way that we can.

Dear Antiseptic,

I'd like to apologise to you for my previous
behaviour on the other thread. I behaved
like a spoiled kid and I'm sorry. Despite that,
you're gracious enough to come onto this thread
and offer some great advice. Thank You.

Hi Foxy
Much good advice has already been given. The one thing I think friends can do is not let him get too isolated. It is good that he visits his adult children in Melbourne regularly. Loneliness always makes the situation worse and it is good to see he has friends like you and your husband.

I don't know the circumstances of the divorce but don't let him become bitter. Even if he is in a smaller 'dump' he can still make it a home, make new friends, join local clubs etc. Bitterness in directed inward more than outward and only hurts him in the long run.

After a while, with the support of friends and family, he will get back on his feet and maybe realise there are new opportunities out there and maybe new friendships.

Antiseptic <"Suze may like to ask a doctor about that."

Even when you are trying to be helpful, you can't help a little dig can you?

Antiseptic, you have no idea about anyone else's situation than your own, so telling anyone they shouldn't see a GP about feelings of depression is actually quite dangerous, and should be left to the health professionals.

For your information, there are many people who do go on medication for reactive depressions, often for short term only.

It may not have helped you, but I know many men where it has been a lifesaving aspect of their recovery. They are often used in conjunction with therapy.
Aren't you worried about male suicides in these situations?

Why don't YOU ask a Doctor about that?

Foxy, tell him this old piece of male wisdom:
"New pussy drives out the memory of old".

Johnny30, in response to your post:

My opinion was indeed of a general nature. I only ever claimed
it to be 5c worth BTW :)

But it sounds to me like Foxy's friend's wife, put her own self
interest first, above any commitment that she had made and wants
to head off to find herself. That is no uncommon these days.

So Foxy's friend feels hurt. I know a similar experience of a bloke
who only ever put his family first, sacrificed everything for them,
she still one day decided that she wanted out and wanted to move on.
Several suicide attempts later, despite all the drugs prescribed, he
is still a train wreck.

It seems to me, that when these kinds of things happen, and it can
happen to either gender, people feel hurt and betrayed. For we all
seem to have a kind of sense of justice.

So what do we need to come to terms with? For a start, that we really
didn't know the person who we thought we knew, despite all those
years of living with them, claiming to know them. They are simply
being themselves, our mistake was our poor judgement.

Once we can accept that, we can move on.

As to dogs, the advice was solid. They make great companions and
are far more predictable then many humans, who can be quite
deceptive.

Foxy, youe apology is graciously accepted. I must congratulate you for being big enough to rise above perceived differnces. I can do aught but strive to emulate your example.

Suzeonline:"there are many people who do go on medication for reactive depressions, often for short term only. "

Yes, I realise that. The first response of many doctors when a depressed man presents is to offer a prescription for one of the SSRIs. I suggest that there are two main reasons for this, neither of which is related to the best interests of the patient. Firstly, it's the cheapest solution: the patient can be sent off to the pharmacy with his script in hand and the medicare claim can be filed - next patient please.

Second, it means the doctor doesn't need to consider underlying issues, but just has to tick the box that says "depression - prescribed [SSRI of choice] - next appt check for side-effects".

Reactive depressions last for a few weeks to a few months. They have no underlying organic cause, but are a sort of fugue state in response to a grievous emotional shock or load. All of the SSRIs take several weeks to several months to stabilise their impacts on neurochemistry. A typical reactive depression would have run its course by then.

I do hope you make a greater effort to understand the treatments you administer to your patients.

You might like to look at this reference, which is a good rundown on citalopram (cipramil), one of the first-option SSRIs. You probably administer it to your elderly patients so they're easier to manage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citalopram

You might also like to look at this reference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_depression

"Primary care physicians and other non-psychiatrist physicians have difficulty diagnosing depression. Non-psychiatrists miss two-thirds of cases and unnecessarily treat other patients."

Unless the person suffers from chronic depression, SSRIs are unlikely to be useful and can actually make people feel much worse for some time. They xB also create a chronic situation simply because the drugs themselves require a long "tapering-off" period if the decision is made to stop their use

In relation to his feelings of depression and despair, exercise will help a lot towards alleviating this. Even if he just starts with some nice long walks eg into town and back. If he does physical things eg working on the house or in the garden he'll feel like he has engaged with life by the end of each day. If he's feeling really stressed, a good hard workout, eg a fast walk up a steep hill (provided his cardiac fitness is good)until he gets puffed and sweaty - should work wonders for feeling stressed and anxious. When I'm stressed I try to throw myself into a physical workout. Not the time you really want to do it, but it does help me when I do. It doesn't remove the problem, but it will help to ease its intensity. This will get his feel good endorphins up and it's a good way of bringing about positive changes to his mental/physical health and well-being. I think it can be a bit annoying though, people telling you you should be exercising. A good way to get him going could be to take him on a long walk with a bit of a picnic lunch for the half-way point. Ask him how he feels at the end of the day so he can feel it for himself. There are also some good teas that are helpful for physical well-being and can be quite calming. Rosehips tea is good I find, plus it's supposed to be good for the immune system which his will be under threat due to your friend experiencing apparent symptoms of depression.

Good advice from Chopper Reid, "Harden the %u(# up." Having been divorced form two trollops & a perpetual student Iv'e had some experience with divorce. So if their no good, "p!$$ 'em off & get another one." This time don't make the same mistake you did the first time. Think about it.

@Foxy, it's hard to give advice when we know nothing of his personality. If he's a very independent type of person, the divorce will eventually be a revelation and a blessing. However, if he's the type of person that really needs the company of others, then his sense of loneliness will be profound.

Since his kids are grown-up, then visitation and separation anxiety is probably not an issue. But he’s probably feeling a profound sense of loss, for the way you made it sound it was a divorce that he wasn’t the initiator of. He may have lost the love of his life, consequently the searching for answers as to what went wrong.

He requires distractions. If he’s a man of hobbies, then this shouldn’t be too difficult. If he isn’t, then you have a task on your hands.

For example, it took me a few years after failed relationships and living on my own, to learn to enjoy my own company, develop hobbies and become comfortable with myself. Also, it’s not just the companionship, but the roles that are adopted by the partner that are missed.

Divorce in long-term relationships is considered to be tantamount to a death in the family for its emotional and psychological impact.

I would allow him some space, while keeping an eye on him not becoming overly morbid and isolative. If he does become like that, then seek professional advice. But it’s natural to want to be alone and be a bit sad about the entire event. Only if he becomes more and more isolative and his mood doesn’t pick-up, but worsens, would I start to get concerned. The average divorcee takes approx. 18-24 months to “get over it”.

When he starts to feel better about things there’s always organisations like Parents Without Partners to distract his thoughts of loss. PWP isn’t a personal choice of mine, but I know many people that have enjoyed the experience, and found it to be a very good way to socialize with others of the same age bracket.

This thread has opened up so many doors
and again I'm grateful for all your inputs.

I've managed to organize a re-union with
ten friends for a night out at one of his favourite
local restaurants here in Melbourne for him in
early October. They're people he used to be close
to, and I thought he'd enjoy touching base with
them again. Anyway, it's a start.

I'll take things slowly and see what develops.
In the meantime - we email each other - so as
things come up I shall pass on the advice that I've
received on this thread.

Once again - Thanks everyone.

The average divorcee takes approx. 18-24 months to “get over it”.

My first one took about 18 months. The second one 6 months & the 3rd, about a month before. It depends on your mental state & the circumstances I guess. At your friends age he should get over it soon, especially if she was a bitch & he was a nice guy. The big thing is lonelyness at first. If he was a nice guy, he'll have plenty of lady friends willing to console him, ;-).

Some good advise has been given.
My thoughts:
Get a balanced lawyer if poperty is involved.
Seek the emotional support of friends.
Seek Divorse Counsellors that are balanced and supportive.
Get involved in things you enjoy.
Seek our a new life and diversify into new interests.
Spend more time with the children.
Do not put down your ex or yourself.
Endeavour to be positive as this attracts friends.

He is a nice guy, but an extremely introverted
one. He's not outgoing at all. And part of the
problem is that he's bitter at the moment,and
keeps wanting to share all
of his "problems" with any female that he meets.
This may be a bit "off-putting" for people that
don't know him. Hopefully this will pass.

@Foxy,

Oh, an introvert. He wants to obsess over it. Does he have any pets? If not, then get him a pup or a kitten, and let him obsess over that...someone else that needs a loving home. He'll say it's a damned inconvenience, but thank you for it in years to come. Don't suggest it or ask. Just do it. (You might subtly check if he's allergic to anything first).

It's amazing how being forced to care for someone or something else, can quickly lift ones spirits, due to the distraction of those considerations. He's also then not returning to an empty house either. Anyway, it's just a suggestion that everyone may also get some fun out of, in the choosing and delivery of the pet.

@Jayb, "My first one took about 18 months. The second one 6 months & the 3rd, about a month before."

Yeah, I know what you mean. The stat was based on first-timers of long-term relationships.

Unfair on the animal, but.

>>Does he have any pets? If not, then get him a pup or a kitten, and let him obsess over that...Don't suggest it or ask. Just do it. (You might subtly check if he's allergic to anything first)<<

You might also "subtly check" whether it is appropriate to inflict this person on a blameless animal. It could be the perfect way to ensure two living creatures are miserable, instead of just one.

Never mind, they can't answer back anyway. Who cares, eh?

I'd love to get him a pet, a dog would be
my choice. But I'll have to think about it.
Pericles might be right - what if he would
neglect the animal in his current state of mind?

He's a caring man, so he probably wouldn't.
But I'll have to talk to hubbie - who knows him
better than I do.

My only piece of advice, reinforced via some of the comments on this thread, is not to patronise him. Leave him the hell alone. It's the least anyone can do.

Be a real friend. It's not about you and your need for him to cheer up and your fear he may top himself, and your need to feel like a good friend and feel needed.

Foxy,

I would rule pets out until more is known. There is a growing intolerance of animals in Australia, as people become more involved in other people's business. This was not helped by recent anti-cat spin by government eager for any rationalisation to bring in new registration to collect taxes for cats. You might note that few dogs are heard in many suburbs and cat owners are locking their animals indoors 24/7 for risk of injury, deliberate or otherwise.

We are animal lovers too and a dog or a cat is great company and therapy, but check it out well first. Has he had a pet before?

Dear Houellie,

Thank You for your advice.
And for your concern about
the needs of our friend.

However, perhaps I didn't make it quite
clear. He's the one who's been reaching out
to my husband and I. He keeps telling us how
grateful he is for our support and how much he
relies on us. He's the one
who keeps emailing, ringing us, asking us when
he can see us - and so on.
That's why I started this thread - to get
advice on how to help him cope. And, Thanks
to the many caring posters, including yourself,
- I've had some
excellent advice. Of course we're going to
use our judgement in what we're able to do
for him. We have no intention of taking over
his life. He's got to live it as he sees fit.
We're there if and when he needs us.

Dear Cornflower,

Thanks for your advice, but don't
worry -
my husband tells me to forget about the pet.
Certainly at this time, as our friend is in
no current mental state to look after a pet.

**You might also "subtly check" whether it is appropriate to inflict this person on a blameless animal. It could be the perfect way to ensure two living creatures are miserable, instead of just one.

Never mind, they can't answer back anyway. Who cares, eh?**

Pericles, once again you've removed the towel we've thrown to cover up our eyes - without us realising that we had done it in the first place. I love what you write Pericles.

Dear Dotto,

Pericles is also one of my favourite posters
on this Forum. I love reading what he has to say.
He's charming, witty, and above all - well-reasoned,
and never insulting.

<< The average divorcee takes approx. 18-24 months to “get over it”. >>

Jayb, mine took about six weeks! ( ;>)

<< The second one 6 months & the 3rd, about a month before. >>

Hahahaaa

My second one took…. hold on…. there ain’t never gonna be a second one, because the message from the first one was crystal clear - don’t you dare ever be such a silly goose again – stay single and freeeeeeeeee!

Twenty one years on, that message is still rock solid!

<< If he was a nice guy, he'll have plenty of lady friends willing to console him, ;-). >>

Oh dear, and then the rot sets in – another marriage – another divorce – uuurgh!

And if he is not a nice guy, he’ll probably have even more lady friends!!

Antiseptic <"I do hope you make a greater effort to understand the treatments you administer to your patients.
You might like to look at this reference, which is a good rundown on citalopram (cipramil), one of the first-option SSRIs. You probably administer it to your elderly patients so they're easier to manage."

Thanks for all that Antiseptic, but I already know all about those medications. I studied them for several years, and have been giving them out for 25 years. How about you?

If you knew what you were talking about you would realise that antidepressants are not used to make elderly patients '...easier to manage.'

They merely assist elderly clinically depressed persons to enjoy their life a little more. I have seen this occur in literally hundreds of elderly people. How many do you know?

Often, one of the most noticeable symptoms in clinically depressed males of any age is an increase in aggression and irritability.
Do you know any men with these sort of symptoms Antiseptic?

Well, it's been a couple of days since
anyone else has posted on this thread so
I guess it's fair to say that it's run its
course.

I'd like to Thank everyone for their contributions
they are very much appreciated.

See you all on other threads.
Enjoy your postings.

when looking for divorce advice for men...check out http://www.dadsdivorce.com

Dear Amy,

Thanks for the website.

However, my friend has already gone through
the divorce - property has been settled,
his children are grown up - so that's not
an issue, it's all over for him,
and all he needs is advice on how to cope
emotionally, now that he's divorced.
Which is why I started this thread - and
I'm grateful for all the input that I've
received - and will pass it on to him, given
the right opportunity.

Again, Thanks for taking the time to respond
to this thread - for me its now run its course.