Dear Antiseptic,

Your disclaimer that you don't attack women
simply doesn't wash. You need
to look at your own posting history and re-read
your posts on this thread to see just how you
come across to people who are trying to
have a discussion on the topic at hand.
You've not cleared anything up at all.

Dear Pelly,

Thanks for lifting the bar in this discussion.
I always enjoy reading your posts.

It's interesting
that a recent study of the National Centre for Social
and Economic Modelling (NATSEM) shows that women are
still being paid 17% less than men on average in Australia.
A difference that equals up to $224 a week, the gap
accounting for 60% of the difference between women's
and men's earnings. The ways in which this wage gap
is created is apparently through things like workplace
segregation, labour force history, the under representation
of women in large firms and so on. It wasn't until the
late 60s that women received equal pay for equal work.
There were a lot of jobs that were considered "women's
jobs," or "men's jobs," and it was legal for women to be
paid less. Many jobs are still considered to be
"women's jobs," and the skills aren't as highly valued,
that tends to be the caring professions.
Anyway, enough said. If anyone can be bothered to do a
bit of research, the facts are there, despite the denials
of a small but vocal minority.

Antiseptic: << I say it informs all intimate relationships between the genders. >>

How successful are you at such relationships? On the basis of what you write here I wouldn't have thought you'd be claiming any great expertise in intimate relationships with women.

<< I can recall spending half my wage on my girlfriend as a matter of routine when I was a young bloke. That contribution is uncounted by the statisticians,but she owned her late model car and had a tidy deposit toward a flat while I had sex pretty regularly. >>

Most of us grow out of that kind of adolescent relationship when we hit our 20s or so. A minority of men don't, apparently.

<< Castrated >>

Hardly. I'm in a loving sexual relationship with a beautiful woman. How about you?

*It's interesting
that a recent study of the National Centre for Social
and Economic Modelling (NATSEM) shows that women are
still being paid 17% less than men on average in Australia.*

Ah Foxy, men of course also do those dangerous jobs,
which women would not touch. They deserve to earn more.

The Chilian mine story is making me smile. The 30
male miners are down at the bottom, amazingly still
alive, nearly left for dead. Meantime the wives
and mistresses are up at the top, arguing between
themselves over the money. So typical!

CJ, before you crow too loudly, just remember that
all your previous relationships over perhaps something
like 30 years, failed. Finally one has worked out.
Hardly great odds.

Not crowing, Yabby. Just pointing out the silliness of Antiseptic's insult, not to mention the futility of approaching one's intimate relationships with women as transactions in exchange for sex.

Clearly, it doesn't work. Nor does attacking them.

Indeed, they're winning - as the article attests. Be afraid, be very afraid ;)

CJ, I've long ago stopped seeing the world as black and white,
more just as lots of shades of colour.

AS does in fact make some very valid points. I try to focus
and think about these points, the same with other posters,
rather then shoot the messenger.

But it seems to be an old truism that often people become
more upset by how somebody says something, rather then what they
actually say.

Now I know that its far more popular on OLO, when posters
wear their hearts on their sleeves and display oodles of
empathy. Everyone pats everyone else on the proverbial
back, in support and agreement.

But I do try to separate emotion from reason and reason
has to dominate, even if we don't like its colour.

* Be afraid, be very afraid ;)*

Of the family law courts yes indeed. I have seen
three generations of farmers build up an asset, only
to lose it at the whim of a judge. If she'd married
a shearer, she would have walked away with nothing,
suddenly the court has made her wealthy. Sadly the
courts, with the encouragement and lobbying of the
feminist movement, have turned marriage and relationships
into a lucrative business, rather then what it was
supposed to be.

I think that is a real shame.

Oh dear, Foxy, do try to avoid the faux-victimhood stuff. It demeans you.

Mean - the sum of all values divided by the number of samples in the population.

Median - the value at which 50% of the population is greater and 50% smaller. The "centre" of the group. In a normal (poisson) distribution mean and median are the same. In a skewed distribution, such as the set of all taxpayers, the median may be considerably different to the mean. That is, in such a population there is a large group on an "average" wage, a somewhat smaller,but still large group on sub-average income, with a very long "tail" made up of people on higher than "average" incomes. Every person making a $million PA is adding the equivalent of 20-50 people's wage to the sum, but only adding one to the population, meaning the mean is driven up relative to the median. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skewness

In the gender-based population sets there is a postive skew, with both sets having a long "tail". The male set has a "heavy" tail, while the female set's tail is relarively thin, thanks largely to the tendency of women to choose safe, secure jobs rather than risky or arduous high-return ones. This means that using the mean figure is going to produce a male "average" that is considerably higher than the income enjoyed by the "average man", while the fenale set will do so to a lesser extent, possibly even understaing the income of the "average working woman" thanks to the large number of women on Government benefits or supported by their husband and thus "earning" nothing for the purpose of the calculation.

Tha ABS publishes only the mean values, which is OK if you're interested in the overall prosperity of the nation,but not much use if you want to look more closely at the way the income is distributed.

Feminists love the mean figure because it gives a misleading impression that, when coupled with the "invisible" wealth transfer between men and women creates an impression of disadvantage where there is none.