Just try to imagine where we will be in twenty years from now.

At 50, I hope to still be alive and well at 70, but I seriously doubt our economy will be, especially if we have a repeat of the past twenty years.

Some of the major problems I see that need to be addressed are;
Tax reform,
Whereby a fairer system is implemented to ensure everyone pays tax. A consumption tax may work here. Meanwhile, we have governments who waste billions and simply shrug it off as if it never happened. Perhaps this was also ‘the recession we had to have’.

Stop fighting other people’s wars.
All the reform in the world won’t work in a country where young children are being taught how to cause ‘gross harm’ to others all in the name of religion.

I always though that our defence forces were there to protect us.

Stop the ‘hand outs’.
If you want something, you work for it, save your money, but don’t simply assume that someone else will pay your way.

Work for welfare
The days of a ‘free lunch’ will simply have to stop.

Super contributions
Stop placing the entire burden on businesses to provide your retirement ‘nest eggs’ and implement a ‘co-contribution scheme’ whereby you only receive super when you also contribute yourself, up to 9%. No splash, no cash!

Another huge problem looming is that of lack of inheritances. Many of today’s wealthy have used the left overs from past generations to create their wealth, which in turn has helped create jobs for the masses. That’s certainly on the decline.

The list goes on.

You know it’s all well and good to keep placing hoops in the way of small business, the largest employer we have, but at what point do the ‘risk takers’ say, enough is enough, then what!

Am I the only one who sees there’s a real problem looming, or, is it only those who create jobs who see it from this angle.

rehctub,
I'm 110 % with you on that one. We need to get away from rewarding people who put no effort toward community or even themselves but have great careers with handsome Superannuation nevertheless.

The 'risk takers' will never say enough is enough. They get too many kicks out of dodging tax. Everything they buy is 'for the business', even their family get-togethers are 'business lunches'.

'risk takers' is right. They will continue with this 'risk', and when the company fails they will declare bankruptcy, not pay any of their debts, and start a new venture the next week with a new company. Nothing is in their name, they don't get a traceable salary and pay no personal tax.

They love he feeling of going it alone, and will never want to face the humiliation of being a wage slave. So the governmnet should never be afraid to 'impost on small business'.

Besides, they love whinging too much to ever quit, about being the heart and soul of the country, and gloating about their 'altruistic' motives of employing people. They're doing it for the country you know.

Thanks for the daily chuckle, Houellebecq.

>>Besides, they love whinging too much to ever quit<<

Given that the entire thread to date is simply a series of disconnected whinges, that's actually quite funny.

Houellebecq,
your post is reminiscent of those "generous" people who donate money with their right hand & simultaneously hand over a tax write-off claim form with the left hand. Or those who "devote" their live to helping others by making sure they don't miss out on a free adventure & to gloat about their good deeds upon their return.

Oh I see, small business owners are in the same basket as philanthropists and aid workers. The delusions of altruism are worse than I thought.

Thank you Thank you so much for being a brave risk taker and allowing me a humble worker the opportunity of a job. I know there's nothing in it for you but the satisfaction of employing me and keeping the country running. I know you will one day be fed up with carrying my dead weight, and taking on administrative burdens such as a bit of data entry in MYOB, and throw it all in to become one of those dirty employees. How you will handle the shame I don't know.

Just like those whose kids are in public schools wont really ever send them to those terrible public schools they are 'subsidising', have no fear the mighty altruistic small business owners of the world will ever be fed up with their burden of being the heart and soul of the country.

I certainly hope that my children's children will have the same blessings that I have had in life. Unfortunately under secularism every generation is becoming more selfish. Tax reform would only work if Governments used the money wisely instead of squandering huge amounts of money. Thankfully people have sent out a message to the current Government as to what they think of huge waste. Imagine they had of inherited an even bigger surplus. Tax reform will only be good if Governments just govern.

It is a nice thought that we don't have to be involved in other peoples wars. None of us like the idea of our countrymen or woman getting killed. Unfortunately while evil exist I doubt whether it is possible to be immune. Non religion actually leads to more death than religion although this is an inconvenient truth for those who deny their Creator and accountability. Russia and China tried wiping out all religion and look at the results. Unfortunately their will be no peace until the Prince of Peace returns to the earth. He is the only One who can deal with the source of war (the corrupt nature of men's hearts).

Hand ups are far better than hand outs. People rarely appreciate some thing they never put in effort in receiving. Look at the way many (not all) treat Government housing. Giving food and clothing is far better than giving money.

Super contributions
The problem with super is that the fund managers really are like economic soothsayers. In the last 2 years my very small super fund has lost a fair portion of its entirety and this is on moderate growth.

The bottom line is that the Scriptures have foretold of the world coming into a great tribulation. All prophecies regarding Israel and its haters are being fulfilled before our eyes.

The most secure thing a parent or grandparent can do in this life is to ground their children in Christ. In Him they will weather every storm and will look forward to eternal life. Without Him life is meaningless and leads to eternal death anyway.

philanthropists and aid workers.
houllie,
how many of them are using resources that they didn't obtain by way of others ? Aid workers ? Would they really be so keen to help others if there wasn't all the accolades afterwards & if they had to use their own resources ? Bravery awards, medals etc. It's all vanity based not kindness. Why don't we hear about the countless people out there working for crap ? Because there's no glamour in looking after old or other unfortunates in our society, that's why ! We're such a great & kind society when it comes to TV coverage disasters but not on the disasters brought on by us on our own people. Global Aid has been exposed a long time ago as one of the most corrupt outfits. The real heroes are never mentioned & by that I mean people who didn't rake in millions for many years by exploiting others & then get a guilt feeling which they then expect romp & pomp public acknowledgement for.

Well, there you have it.

Small Business Owners; The real heroes of society.

PS: I'm generally with you on the ego pay-offs of those people you mention. There is no truly selfless deed.

I just don't happen to believe...

Small Business owners do it for the country and for their employees.
People with kids in private schools do it to subsidise the public system.
Ditto private health.
Real estate investors do it so there is houses to rent.
Farmers do it for the good of the country.
People have kids for the virtuous goal of producing future tax payers.

In Summary, small business people will still be small business people regardless of the supposed 'hoops' they must jump through. People will always want kids, enough people will do their damnedest to afford private schools, farmers wont stop being farmers.

None of these groups are doin' us all a favour like they'd have you believe.

None is as wonderful and altruistic as the poor downtrodden single childless office workers on $150k who don't have private health insurance.

Ever felt like some one had walked over your grave rechtub.
That was to be the exact title of my next thread.
The similarity ends there however.
I will not be here then, our defense force will be.
And still fighting for, well what it fights for now, us.
I think you will expect America or England to help us if we are invaded is that about right?
Why would they.
In your look after your selves world enemy's would grow stronger daily, see no one would look for them.
A killing ground for those who hate and kill for Gods,
If unemployed are the problem lets stop middle class welfare too subsidy's for business the whole thing.
Show me the party, any of them , that supports your views.
Closest on defense bloke wait for it are the greens.
Are you a closet green?
Not too sure what party wants public flogging for the out of work but long before 2030 both party's will re craft how we pay unemployment benefits ,both sides said this in this election ,doubt starvation action got a run.

And still fighting for, well what it fights for now, us.
Belly,
When one looks at the many so-called trouble spots which take up just about all the Allied's resources it isn't all that way-out to think that the trouble spots are created with the agenda of depleting the Allied's resources.

"The most secure thing a parent or grandparent can do in this life is to ground their children in Christ. In Him they will weather every storm and will look forward to eternal life. Without Him life is meaningless and leads to eternal death anyway".

No Runner,
The best thing the present generations can do for the young is teach them how to think clearly.

It was the scientific revolution starting with Copernicus and Galileo which allowed the population to creep out from under the yoke of the Christian religion. Some people are still quite ignorant under the control of some religions.

Sure Russia and China tried to overcome the superstition of religion but they those countries were under political tyrants. I am not aware that there has ever been a secular tyrant. The secular movement believes in the separation of church and state.

I am secular in my beliefs. You can believe whatever nonsense you wish, just don't try to apply pressure to change how I live my life.

I won't bore you with details but much of my income and time in retirement is spent helping people less fortunate than me. All I get out of it is the pleasure of making a worthwhile contribution.

My life is not meaningless and you can stick your hope for eternal life. I cannot think of anything more boring.

Houellebecq,

I'm with you most of the way on this one.

I've yet to meet a small business owner who wasn't in business for personal profit rather than providing a mechanism for employment for the public good.

That's why many dream of getting big enough to go off-shore or outsourcing to maximise profits.

That's why Work Choices was created and the term "unfair dismissal" has an entirely different meaning to them.

There were some small business owners that tried so hard to make a quick buck from the public purse not so long ago that cost the lives of 4 insulation installers.

In twenty years I think. the western world will have even more internal strife as a result of religious differences.
Far less however attend any church.
We will have had more terrorist acts big ones and more wars small ones.
The thought we can put flowers in the barrels of our guns will be seen far less as the reality both sides need to do it, and never will takes over.
Welfare will be far different but if rechtub is still alive he will not be.
We will by then, yes short time but true have the successor to the NBN , it having proved its value , radio will take over using existing and new towers and both land lines phone and computer will be no longer used.
Australians will still demand much from its politicians, then complain about the spending.
The National party will no longer exist,being part of the Liberals.
Both Liberals and Labor will have rump party's, made to harvest preferences.
Greens, after two DD elections in those twenty years will be better lead and while unable to control the senate or the votes of 85% of voters will be growing constructively again from its 4% base.
IF both sides of politics want to we will have a better system of voting one vote one value for me.

Rehctub

You might be interested in the policies of the ldp: see ldp.org.au

Their policy - "30/30" - is to reform social security and tax together as follows.

The tax rate for everyone, including corporations, is 30% for all income over $30,000. This removes the incentive for jiggery-pokery by shuffling funds between private persons and corporations; eliminates the whole industry of tax evasions and tax accountants.

For income under $30,000, you get a handout equal to 30% of the difference between what you earn, and $30,000. So if you earn $0, you get a handout of 30% x $30,000 = $9,000.

But if you earn $10,000, you get a handout of 30% of the difference between $10,000 and $30,000 = 30% x $20,000 = $6,000. So your income is $10,000 you earnt plus $6,000 handout = $16,000.

All other social security handouts are abolished.

This abolishes the poverty trap. It means that no matter your income, you will always be better off by earning more.

While it doesn't get rid of handouts, it makes them fairer and uniform, greatly simplifies the tax system and makes it fairer and uniform, and makes everyone better off for working and earning, while still providing handouts for those who cannot or will not earn for themselves.

In my opinion a progressive rate of tax is in the best interest of the nation. What I think should be done, is to cancel all tax rebates; therefore simplifying the system, and to reduce all the rates of tax. (and greatly reduce the costs of running the Tax Office)

for example there would be no more fringe benefit rebates, with which people get away with paying little or no tax.

all my ideas are outlined on my website, please feel free to contribute or criticize.

https://sites.google.com/site/futureofaustralia/home

Are you sure you mean this, future of australia?

>>...all my ideas are outlined on my website, please feel free to contribute or criticize<<

There comes a time, when it needs to be said.

Stop, already.

I know that it is incredibly easy to set up a web site. And to populate that web site with anything you like.

All the wacky notions, that occur to you when you're lying in the bath, or gazing (too hard, too long) at the moon and stars.

All the ideas that spring into your head after the third glass of red, or the fifth toke, or in that bizarrest spot, half way between waking and sleeping when you're not quite sure what is real and what is dream.

I know, it is a perfectly natural human activity. Twelve year-old girls do it best, when they confide in their diaries all those random thoughts that bustle and collide in their soon-to-be adolescent brains about, like, boys and like new bffs, and like, whatever.

But please, just because it is easy to do, doesn't mean that you have to do it.

Especially where other people can read it. More so, when you actually invite people to read it.

I've just lost fifteen minutes of my life, that I will never get back, reading your stream-of-consciousness brain-dump.

"Reportedly 'disappointed' by the reception of his poem, Grunthos then prepared to read his 12-book epic, My Favourite Bathtime Gurgles. He was prevented from doing so when his small intestine leapt up his neck and throttled his brain in a desperate bid to save civilization, killing him." Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy,

I hope for your sake you have a more tolerant stomach.

Pericles:"I've just lost fifteen minutes of my life, that I will never get back"

Serves you right.

AH the invasion of the web page owners, funny but looking for some one to read your page this way seems painful.
So if income was zero you get nine grand, and all other HANDOUTS ARE BARED?
Pensions? cripples who may be you or me? rat bag idea the whole thing is too silly.
Get a big fence, make it high, send the poor to starve to death there, hang on lets get some gas and ovens, no been done.
Welfare reform yes, but not this, not anything like that silly hurtful idea all on welfare are bludgers.

The simple facts are that what ever we do with taxes, they must increase in some way, otherwise tomorrows retirees simply won't be able to survive as succesive governments for years have failed to save for peoples retirements. Instead, their answers have been to burdon employers with ever increasing superanuation contributions, soon the be increased, which ultimately results in increased costs of running a business.

What governments should have done was place a portion of taxes paid into the tax payers super, had employers contribute say 5% in super and, if the individual wanted for a higher standard of retirement, save thier own super.

The other failure is that those who contribute the most in taxes, receive the least in support when they retire and this is wrong and creates dishonesty.

Most everything else in life, the more you pay, the more you get, except for taxes.

And belly, it is only you who suggests we treat welfare recipients as 'bludgers', or at least that's what you accuse us of.

I acknowledge that not all welfare recipients are bludgers however, wefare used to be for those who were out of work. Now it has become more of a 'top up' scheme and has produced generations of people who consider thier 'hand outs' and how they may be effected prior to accepting either a job, and or overtime. This is where the problem lies.

But, most of you are missing the point of the thread.

The previos 20 years have seen tarrifs depleted, aguculture being almost whiped out, manufacturing all but gone and due to the low US dollar, tourisum is on its knees.

So they say, let's tax the miners. Der! It's about the only thing left.

Don't shoot the messenger, simply consider where we will be in 20 years if nothing changes. This is the issue and failure is simply not an option any of us can accept.

"None of these groups are doin' us all a favour like they'd have you believe"

Your comments only demonstrate what I have realised this year on OLO about you "H". Regardless of your vintage, you are tunnell visioned, cynical and bare a grudge generalising about business people which has blinded you to the facts that farmers and graziers, among business people" are the backbone who support yourself and others.

Agreed on the part 'I dont believe'; strongly disagree on your narrow minded opinion that those people listed are not doing you or anyone else a favour.

Delete your list of people and the economy will collapse altogether.

Business people don't go into business to create jobs, they go into business to create wealth and to provide a life style for themselves, well, at least that's the objective.

Now that's all well and good, but succesive labor governments, in conjuction with unions, have fought tooth and nail for the rights of workers, however, along the way they have taken away the rights of many employers. The end result has been a huge increase in inovative equipment, which by the way, costs jobs.

The logic behind offering incentive to buy equipment, while making employing less attractive, is simply an no brainer.

Rights like, who you can and can't employ. Or, the flexability to employ staff when they are needed, as depicted by the bussiness, without being penalised for it.

School kids can no longer work 2 hr shifts. What on earth was wrong with that? Now it's back to mum and dad for financial support.

And those of you who think your job is not the result of someones risk, wake up and smell the roses.

My mate with the three restaurants has just been gifted with a $14,000 pay roll tax bill. Oops, he employed to many staff! Best he look for a way to correct that hey.

Like it or not, we are headed on a down hill spiral and unless there are some very serious reforms, poverty will come a knocking for many more in the next 10 to 20 years.

@Pericles

>>...all my ideas are outlined on my website, please feel free to contribute or criticize<<

I meant feel free to criticize the ideas, not the act of creating a website.

I am looking for genuine debate in regards to the ideas mentioned and you are welcome argue against any of my proposals, minus the personal insults.

They have been summarized a great deal to make them more palatable, so the finer points would not be apparent with a superficial reading.

Perhaps by doing so I failed to express myself correctly but Im confident that many of these ideas have merit.

Regards,
Sam (Future of Australia)
https://sites.google.com/site/futureofaustralia/

Rehctub's vision is basically just the old rehashed fundamentalist, politically correct, far right wing agenda of how people must live if we are to survive. There's no room for true diversity in that brave new world; you have 2 choices there (1) abide by and obey the "system" or (2)suffer, struggle and perish.

The further to the right we go, our human rights are diminished, despite the spin: Just like the further to the left we go, our human rights are diminished, despite the spin.

It's the same old story, repeated decade after decade, century after century.

But the far left and far right ideologues are convinced that "their" way is the right way. When will we ever learn? Probably never.

And that's another thing, future of australia.

>>I am looking for genuine debate in regards to the ideas mentioned and you are welcome argue against any of my proposals, minus the personal insults<<

You say that, but you really don't mean it.

Well, apart from the personal insults bit, of course.

You do mean that part.

But as for the rest, while you may possibly be sincere in looking for a "genuine debate", the material you present doesn't allow for that possibility.

It is - and I'm sure that you agree with me on this point - a wishlist of utopian ideas. How does one argue against a wishlist?

The ideas themselves are little more than a bunch of candy-floss generalizations, wrapped up in a comfy cocoon of idealism, and tied together with a pretty pink bow of niceness. And I'm sure that this is because you are a thoroughly nice person.

But it is obvious, right from the outset (your paragraphs on "Education") that you have no interest in addressing life "as it is", but prefer to imagine an entirely different life... "if only".

Debating this would be like trying to catch sunbeams in a butterfly net. Lots of dancing around making elegant gestures, with nothing to show for the effort.

While explaining the harsh realities to you would be like smacking a puppy.

rechtub I know you do not understand.
But if we put tariffs back on the first to suffer would be our farmers international markets would close to them.
Cheaper plant and a great deal of imported needs would not be around.
An understanding of the impacts of shutting our doors to international trade could help you

<<But as for the rest, while you may possibly be sincere in looking for a
"genuine debate", the material you present doesn't allow for that possibility.>>

The ideas can easily be debated, see here:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3877&page=6

Perhaps they cant be debated in the excruciating detail that you require

in order to find the opportunity to level insults, which i suspect gives you great pleasure.

I think this is what you meant when you said 'the material doesnt allow for debate'

TZ5>>The further to the right we go, our human rights are diminished

Now that's a very good point, just try telling this to the likes of China and India, our future global competitors.

Like it or not, our rights as workers are simply un-sustainable if we wish to survive in 20 or 30 years from now.

Employers are no longer 'free agents' as they have so many hoops to jump through, yet, employees are free to pick and choose when and where to work, at a time that best suits them. The system is out of balance.

These rules and restrictions were not there 20, 30 years ago and, most who wanted work, found it. Most who worked and wanted a house, could afford it. These days, going into business has a hole lot of rules that simply were not there before and, I feel the 'up-take' of people going in to SB will decline, then what.

Remeber, small business comes with 'risks' and 'rewards'. Now if the risks out favour the rewards, it will be 'game over'.

My lease runs out in 2 and a bit years and I doubt I will re-sign as it is simply not worth it, esspecially when I can earn easy money as a supermarket, meat jocky, working 40hrs per week.

And belly, you are right, I don't understand tariffs, but I am keen to learn.

Critique of your manifesto does not require deep thought, future of australia.

>>Perhaps they cant be debated in the excruciating detail that you require...<<

Or detail. As I mentioned before, they contain so little of any substance, debate of any kind is impossible.

[Education] "Schools will be amalgamated so that there is only one school in each district. Beside the school we will build all the public amenities such as Parks, sports fields, tennis and basketball courts, Pools and a large well-furnished Library."

In which universe can this possibly be achieved? Certainly not one that contains cities. If we all lived in leafy suburbs, with acres of unused space, you just might manage one or two isolated examples - much like the "new towns" that were devised in post-war Britain.

I suggest you do some research on what happened to "new town" concepts such as Stevenage, Basildon and Welwyn Garden City, who also tried the kind of social engineering that so clearly underpins your ideas.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Basildon

Any form of command-and-control government freakery is, to me, the worst possible vision that we can have of our future. It can only lead to the suppression of the individual in the "service" of the state.

And it is this "we know what is best for you" idea that permeates your site.

The reason for my (possibly over-) reaction to your site is that it symptomatic of this attitude. Underneath the "wouldn't it be nice" idealism is an assumption of the masochism of the masses, whose burning desire is for a benevolent dictator to tell them what to do.

>>...in order to find the opportunity to level insults, which i suspect gives you great pleasure.<<

If you feel offended that this is my opinion, that is something that I regret.

But far from giving me any pleasure, I feel great sadness, in that you also represent a far too prevalent conceit of the post-internet generation.

Which is that communication is, by and of itself, a substitute for thought, reason and logic.

So belly, given that we think about the same subject, just where do you see us in the year 2030.

In the year 1990, a good electric drill cost about $200. Today, you can still buy that drill for $200, yet, if it fails it will cost you $50 just to have an Aussie look at it. 20 years ago it would have been looked at for free and fixed for five bucks, if that.

Cloths, shoes etc are no longer made here as we can’t afford the wages.

Farmers can’t afford to pick their crops on a Sunday any more because of the wages. In fact, many are selling up as their land has become to valuable for the return they receive by farming.

Gen Y and Alpha has this perception that they can finish school, go to Uni and get a degree and get a job on $80K plus. Trouble is, it’s real. Meanwhile our police, many of whom risk their lives on a daily basis, get paid far less than that.

So, what do we do?

Well its 2030! I made it never thought I would.
Sitting on the veranda in my rocker and remembering my 10,000 post in OLO.
It was to old rechtub, still complains about wast in his retirement village.
We spoke about Bill Shortens 5th win, he is the longest ever PM now plus his taking over from JG mid term.
We still buy shoes and socks most things from over seas.
But we lead the world still in exporting food minerals and tourism brings big money.
All our meat is sausages now, every thing from road kill to deer is in them, some things never change.
Heard Tony Abbott ran third in the old fellas marathon, he sells papers on the corner of king street for a living.
Turnbull rebuilt the Liberals, shame he handed it over to Joe Hockeys son.
Give my chair a push young fella

Belly, I bit of humor, I like it.

Well I can see you sitting there, from my perch, high on the hill peeping over my 8 ft perimiter fence, guarded by six rotties to keep the unruly out.

Boy that investment 30 years ago in the gas field sure has paid off.

Well, i'd best be going off to play golf now, but it's a real hastle having to go by boat, but, that's what happens when years of labor governments, both federal and state simply would not listen and wasted all our money. So they can't even afford to maintain the roads anymore. At $100 per hour for the guy/girl who holds the stop/go sign, what did they expect. Those trees that are blocking your view belly are where the road was. Can you believe that.

BTW, those busses that you see parked along the way, well, don't try to catch one as they are where the homeless live, thousands of them 'hot bedding'. Don't know where they go when they arn't sleeping, it's not as if they go off to work!

Continued casue it's fun.

Continued
Belly that big building over to your right, well, that has all the IT geeks in it, but, despite them having access to the NBN, we simply can't compete with the likes of china and india anymore, so they just use the NBN to play computer games with each other. Shame, but hey, we treied to tell them that IR laws would ruin this country, but what would we know. After all, we are just the 'job creators', the 'risk takers', but as usual, what would we know.

They went off and increased the rights of the workers,time and time again, only the workers though.

They forgot the basic rule of business. You must pay equal attention to all four legs of the table.

The employer, the employee, the product and the consumer. They forgot the employer and the consumer, can you believe that! How dumb!

Anyway, have to go now, I can hear the black halk approaching with my supplies for the next day or so.

BTW, I hope you enjoy that can of soup yor're about the have. Not sure where it came from. The first lable says made in aus, the second says, product of NZ, the third china, sorry, can't even recognise the fourth.

Cheers

rechtub the sausage king telling me how well of he is again,
Then trying to tell me how workers rights will break this country, love it.
Not a tin of soup mate I grow my own its vegy soup see a mate of mine about 2010 turned me into a vegetarian, oh, yes that was you!
Doctor saw me yesterday via the NBN said I could live to be 100.
Bet if your computer had been your cash register you could do more than play games on it.
Did the Broncs make the finals?
Took a long time to get over the salary cap breach in 2011 but may make it next year.

Good to see we are still mates, I appreciate that.

Nbn, this is also what the 'super clinics' is all about hey, we will just 'look' and make a jugement call, after all, it's all about seeing how many we can squeese into that 15 minute consultaion period, hey! Patients per hour, means dollars per hour, means doctors getting richer while patients getting less for thier dollars as 'super clinics' are all about 'bums on seats', little else.

Now as for the Broncos, well, what can I say, other than we are blooding a new side and happened to just miss the finals for the first time in 19 years. Better luck next year.

Now, if you get a chance, please tell Wayne, that he has to make it clear to the saints that they havn't won yet, as last year they forgot there was a final series before they could be crowned premiers.

Go the titans!

BTW, I don't oppose workers rights, just any inbalance that occurrs, either way.

Remember, wages, like any other business expense comes from two things.

Risk, and profits. Nothing else!

Place to much presure on either and you risk jobs.

Are you aware that the only tradies, of any real number, really doing well at the moment are those working on government projects?

That speaks volumes for me and sends clear warning signs for the future.

rechtub we are mates.
Look my brother, the one who gets my home, is a Liberal voter follows Manly,knows nothing about politics, but is my mate.
You may not think this is true, it is, manager of a massive firm, contacted me,we need to do a three year agreement he said.
Put 5% a year pay rise on the table, without being asked.
Said he knew the GFC had seen pegged wages and hard times.
Spoke openly about trained workers, workers he had trained and invested in , Going to the other big producer of his product.
Who gets the blame here, market forces bloke.
Those Traffic controllers you dislike, you make me blush, very proud of that one.
In your state these CASUAL workers had been paid less than full time laborers.
Often, almost always insured as and paid as security workers, its cheaper and lower wages.
NOW WITH pride they get very good CASUAL wages no holidays sick leave nothing but paid? to the national standards
Rechtub, just maybe they can eat a better cut of meat even some of those road kill snags with the extra income.
what gos around comes around.
by the year 2030 you may understand consumers spend wages not buy second homes.

Do the math belly.

5% per year for 20 years, compounding.

Now, come 2030, do you think we will be eating home grown foods, after all, HG foods SHOULD in crease by at least 10 to 15% per year, to allow for increased wages and costs and a little bit for the boss, otherwise the employer will go broke, or, do you think we will all be forced to eat cheap imports?

Now if we ban imports and increase food prices by 10 to 15%, for the next 20 years, that's fine, so long as the employer gets his 5% increase each year as well.

Now, do you see this happening? And remember, we are only talking about food.

What about almost everything else that is either, imported, or at least made from imported goods?

Do we ban all imports so we can at least support jobs in our own nation?

What about if the likes of the US or europe do the same?

What then, we simply can not continue down the same path without some very serious reforms. Otherwise, there may well be no 2030. At least not as we know it now.

BTW, did you see last night story on china, 60 minutes. Scary stuff hey!

On my first day at work less than 13 years of age I earned 5 pounds.
Picking peas in a year frost had killed most of the crop.
Prices very high and one of those very close very big family's camped on the farm.
They acted as the union, set the price and picked 95% of the crop.
Market forces the farmer had his best cash crop of his life.
My pay was near three weeks of my dads.
After bread meat and 3 pounds for mum I had 18 shillings towards the price of a bike.
No one went broke, my Money went back into circulation.
A BASE FACT, I think still no boss employs a worker because he likes them.
They build his firm and cash box too.
They oil the local economy.
High wages lead to high prices.
I spent more today on Lunch, a simply fish and chips one,than my dad earned in a month.
When I was 16 living away from home constructing a power station my dad got 6 pounds a week, I got 27.
No one went broke our country grew shorter working weeks gave birth to a whole new recreation and leisure industry.
Would you rechtub leave low paid workers to forever not have a chance to take the kids to the yellow arches on Sunday?
IS it ok to demand a lower paid lower class working class for the good of the economy?
Is wages the only factor for some shops closing? could over priced junk be more likely the problem?
In 2030 I will be dead if someone remembers me please let it be for caring about workers rights, understanding a boss has the right to a fair days work for a fair days pay.
And understanding we, each of us could fall on hard times

Very heart warming belly.

Just remember, back in the late 70's, when I left school and started work, a years wage, for a butcher, would buy you a house.

Now it's more like 7.5 years.

A loaf of bread was not much less than you can buy one today, a shirt is about the same price today, only imported. A pair of shoes much the same, again, imported.

We have a generation that will never see a shirt or shoes made in Australia, unless of cause, it has some uniquness about it.

Finally, I don't hate workers, all I say is that when the wages of 'un skilled' jobs are high, then we can't afford to paid the skilled workers what they are worth and, our leaders wonder why we have a skill shortage. It's a dead set 'non brainer'!

I say again, what do you do when a stop go sign holer is on $100 per hour.

How could any pensioner afford to call a traddie?

Do you see a problem moving forward?

No bloke just can not look at it like you do.
Those shoes are made by very low income workers who may starve without them.
We help them by providing a market.
To make shoes here your way we would need to reduce our costs/wages to those rates
is that not true?

Belly, that is very true and indeed, the whole cruts of my thread.

Manufacturing-All but gone.

Farming - Going

Office workers are even being replaced by overseas competitors.

I read somewhere that one can hire the services of an entire, fully staffed office for the cost of one exec staff member here.

For god sake, we even import the labels on food stuffs telling us what we are eating.

Just tell me one thing.

Where do you suggest the jobs will come from come 2030?

Manufaturing
Farming
Retail
Textile industries
IT
Tourisum

Where?

ok rechtub take a seat mine is long black four sugars.
We need to go back to the past to bring you up to date with the future.
Trade changed , about the Time England went in to the EU.
We no longer had a market for butter wool meat, things got a bit tight.
We had meat exports, cracker cows to America, ex milking or baldy faced crosses bred for that market.
World trade, it became both a pain in the butt and a new market for us.
While we saw America [our good mate with its hand in our back pocket] do dirty deals locking us out of the lamb market.
We set our sights on a true fair, no lock outs world trading system.
You can bet its better in 2030 than ever before.
So Katter wanted to replace trade barriers, locking the gate on? our selfs as we lock out other country's they to lock us out.
How do you see our farmers dieing out.
What evidence?
back to the present.

Same again mate I will pay for it if you are concerned about the cost.
Shame your dad could not be with us, I Would get on well with him, he however may box your ears.
It is 9/910 today how are we tracking?
Just been in an election both sides used lies ,yours more than mine, and fear.
Our economy leads the world, yes we see call centers going offshore and we import a great deal.
Manufacturing? old one that it died years ago, strange you highlight it,every battle we trade unionists fight to keep it here see,s those like you? well boot our rib cadge in.
Farmers farm and every day make inroads into very big markets .
We import food but export more.
What bought you to think every farmer is growing the right crop in the right place at the right time?
Some will fail some butchers fail it happens
Lets go back to the future.

My shout this time ,yes I will buy the soft donuts for you and the cappichino.
Notice we are looking our age? we look like those two old men from the muffets.
I am the better looking one and the brighter.
We have new fuels NBN is about to be upgraded the conservative Liberal coalition is still moving left trying to fill Labors old shoes and we continue to export coal.
Protesters gathered out side the greens HQ and made coal fires last week any chance it was you?
The roof is not falling we continue to be Aussies I trust each generation to throw up leadership and even those who bring me pain will continue Henny Penny is a conservative do not believe much she says.

No time today belly, but I will respond.