ALGORE, if “Agenda 21” is as terrifyingly scary as the dreaded “Vancouver city rezoning” declaration you got us all to read in “Behind the Green curtain”, we’ll, I may just have to yawn and turn the page and look for a thread that has some substance.

Eclipse Now --What came first your belief in AGW, or your commitment to world govt ?
…………………………………………………………………………………………
I can think of few things more scary than having people like Eclipse Now, in control of our destinies (except, perhaps, having his stable mate Grateful and his mob in control)

Eclipse now with his wet-nosed-puppy adulation of new-world-order advocates and his starry eyed delusion that world govt & a borderless world would magically solve our problems, would set humanity back a thousand years .

Even if he were permitted to divvy up all the worlds resources today, within a decade, or less, we’d have another population of have-nots --either through laziness, bad luck or foolhardiness.

And any who rose above the rest, through sacrifice , enterprise, or good fortune, would (little doubt) be deemed to be exploiters –Eclipse and his crowd can produce all sorts of creative accounting-“externalities” measures to prove that.

Eclipse & his commissars would have to have periodic purges or a punative tax system to keep everyone in roughly the same strata. You'd have to say goodbye to all those entrepreneurs/risk takers who've driven society up till now, you'd have to say goodbye to much of our cutting edge R&D & the space program, since they are not focused enough on the wants of the “worlds needy”, who his plan would put into the box seat. Much more relevant –in a world mobocracy dominated by such less well offs, would be funding for child birth --the more the merrier – and childcare , you rear what they bear!

Actually, Eclipse and Grateful differ mainly as to who will be the ruling group in a new world order.And, it’s highly likely that after a decade of IPCC–UN misgovernment we’d probably all be ripe & ready for a (Grateful, endorsed) new Islamic caliphate.

We don't need ya U-N-nation
We wont heed ya marchin tune
No more commie equalisation
Clipso dude ya such a loon
Hey! Dude! leave Ozland alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

We don't need ya ruin-ation
We wont be 'clipsed by Benk Ki-Moon
No more IPCC fabrication
Clipso dude ya such a loon
Hey! Dude! leave Ozland alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

"Wrong, Do it again!"
"You can’t ‘ave meat ‘n you can't ‘ave suet .
“’n if you buck the system we’ll make you rue it.”
“Oy! what ya mean “more please”? get ya ass back in line!”

Horus,
My political preference is "Social Liberalism: Civil rights, Social Justice and State funded welfare in a Market Economy".
Basically by crying “socialist” over this subject you’re displaying the lack of imagination that early Australia probably witnessed in some colonial die-hards. I can see you there, spreading paranoid conspiracy theories. “No, don’t Federate Australia, it’ll be a step backwards for NSW! We don’t need Victoria, they don’t have any resources we actually need, what are we doing? Setting up a socialist state?” Blah blah blah.

Your lack of climate science is condemning enough though. How original. I guess conspiracy theories come naturally to you then, and OF COURSE you’ll be right up there with bug-eyed Monckton foaming at the mouth about world conspiracies. If climate were a conspiracy, it’s not a very good one is it? The IPCC didn’t actually ACHIEVE anything did they? So go ahead and ‘believe in’ a conspiracy involving thousands of independent scientists and scholars and think tanks. Maybe the laws of physics got recruited as well? Oh, and with a socialist world government AND worldwide climate science conspiracy, I’m guessing you also believe in Area 51? Mate, please carry around some Vaseline. I hear those ‘alien probes’ hurt!

**To who actually have their brains engaged** and are interested in world peace, global prosperity, and solving global warming and peak oil, I’d encourage people to get acquainted with the EU’s Lisbon treaty. This has the hall-marks of a world Federation! The EU is just a prototype of what is to come. When we’ve succeeded, we’ll have the money to fund a REAL space agency and get serious about an off-world colony.

I guess I'm still with Albert Einstein then.

“In my opinion the only salvation for civilization and the human race lies in the creation of a world government, with security of nations founded upon law. As long as sovereign states continue to have separate armaments and armament secrets, new world wars will be inevitable.”,

Albert Einstein

The argument on my global government page states:

1. Why I like the idea of a World Parliament (or World Federation)
2. Groups promoting global governance
3. The European Union shows how it might START
4. The European Union shows how it might WORK
5. Save $1000 000 000 000 and other benefits
6. Africa has caught the dream of an African Union
7. South America has formed UNASUR
8. PM Kevin Rudd has called for an “Asia Pacific EU”.
9. Scientific American (podcast) discusses a world without war.

http://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/reform-global-government/

But how do we get there? How much pain will we go through before realising this goal? It could get 'worse' before it gets better. The "United States of Africa" project is still ticking along.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/829060.stm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/ambitious-plan-for-a-new-africa-welcome-to-the-usa-thats-the-united-states-of-africa-455337.html

Same for South America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAN

There has even been talk (from the usual suspects) about the USA and USAN forming an alliance of a "global south" to help stick it to the north. But my view is that once an Asian Union, African Union, and USAN start to actually form and mean something, then the momentum will build for global democracy.

And then, to answer ALGORE, the citizens of the WORLD will be the ones who vote on the values of that organisation.

There are more than a few flies of reality crawling around in your ointment of peaceful cooperation, Eclipse Now, when it comes to imagining a world government.

I personally believe that the EU experience argues forcefully in the opposite direction to that which you imagine. But let's leave it aside for a moment, and instead consider a couple of alternative examples of grand federation.

1. Yugoslavia. The bringing together of Serbs, Croats, Slovenes and Montenegrans.

Success or failure? Discuss.

Feel free to apply any of the wisdom learned during the course of the twentieth century, should the clarity of hindsight be required.

2. The USSR.

The unifying creed of Communism was used to unite Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

Success or failure? Discuss.

Feel free to invent a political philosophy that would stand a greater chance of keeping these countries together, again using the entire history of the world to assist with the hindsight necessary to achieve this.

I'm generally regarded as an optimist. But this goes beyond optimism. Humans will need to evolve substantially beyond where we are, even to stand the slightest of chances to reach this goal. I'd say, a minimum of another thousand years. Absolute minimum.

In the meantime, any attempts to speed the process towards world government would actually be counterproductive. They would be the source of wars, more destructive than any we have so far witnessed.

Actually, thinking it through, that is probably the fastest way to bring it about.

If there are any survivors to enjoy it, of course...