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The Forum > General Discussion > Will this be a win for the Libs but a loss for Democracy.?

Will this be a win for the Libs but a loss for Democracy.?

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I had intended to wait until after the election but this is an open letter to my ALP.
A Liberal could write much the same about his/her party but this is about mine.
Those running my party are intent on putting up better candidates, so much so they impose stars who always fail on us.
Branches largely are in the hands of groups, some climbing the ladder to self built castles in the air some there to vote so he/she who must be obeyed wins every vote.
I am bored by 70 year olds who vote on issues they never understand to keep the wrong people in charge.
Do not isolate unions but never be driven to put the wrong man in power ,the power of unions belongs to its members not them.
NSW thanks at least for isolating the NSW infection from Federal but look deeply at why you let this state, the one than won for Rudd suffer so much understand the last minute promises from the NSW mob are a waste this voter can not wait to get my revenge on NSW but wants victory tomorrow with an understanding you owe the members much.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 20 August 2010 6:44:18 AM
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If the ALP lose it may well be BECAUSE Julia decided to be seen with Keneally, promising the Epping-Parramatta line for the 6th time, when it actually isn't the most needed line for the area any more. She reinforced the link between NSW and Federal Labor many had made after the ousting of Rudd and the poor implementation of policy.

Then she stabbed Keneally in the back by slamming NSW Labor when she decided she had made a big mistake.

I actually feel for Keneally, used and abused by Gillard.
Posted by Houellebecq, Friday, 20 August 2010 9:09:54 AM
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Houellebecq,

re > difference between 57- 58 top 100 movies <
Simple, to me movies are discretionary ENTERTAINMENT and as such I don't have a top 100 (not important) and besides I look at genre and substance and circumstances of the time. All these externalities rend such an absolute judgement superficial and pointless.

Government is about life and other vital yet mundane issues.

Re JG using Keneally/ NSW the reason for Labor losing.
On what basis do you claim that? Sure the perceptions of the bumper sticker mentality will be a contributive factor. But on sheer numbers of seats that will possibly change hands surely Qld will be the decider.

Your reason fails given the Pork barreling Abbot did in one seat promising $1+ million for a noisy minority in a marginal for a car park (state & council issue). Tell me Abbot wasn't trying to stack a coming state election.... All this seriousness I could do with a laugh. Both are clear examples of why the party system is dysfunctional.
Posted by examinator, Friday, 20 August 2010 10:59:34 AM
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'All these externalities rend such an absolute judgement superficial and pointless.'

examinator, that's my point doofus.

political parties and even independents have more variables than movies have.

In the end you have to rate which areas of policy are more important, then work out which people support your views. Then at the level of even 1 policy area there are significant differences in the detail of even the smallest of areas. Then you have believability of promises, likelihood of getting stuff through the senate etc.

You've got to be kidding if you think movies would be harder. No doubt you are a 1 policy voter, or don't investigate the views of the minor parties and independents. You see most things in black or white so I suppose it's no problem for you.

'On what basis do you claim that?'
I claim that on the fact that QLD was already a problem, now she has exacerbated the problem in NSW to more dangerous levels meaning now she may lose enough seats to actually lose. You can see it by her desperation about NSW Labor now her tactic has backfired and she has bad mouthed NSW Labor. She must have had some dreadful internal polling the way she's acting.

If people weren't going to punish her for NSW Labor, they certainly are now. Her tactic has backfired big time.

Also, if they didn't already think she was a backstabbing biatch, after seeing the number she just did on Keneally, they certainly will do now.

It's not the pork barrelling that counts or that they'll lose more seats in QLD, it's the stupidity of thinking associating yourself with NSW Labor will not end in tears. Without the rail line tactic I think she had a much better chance. Polling today is suggesting this also.

PS: Your comprehension skills haven't improved.
Posted by Houellebecq, Friday, 20 August 2010 11:59:01 AM
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Ludwig, foxy others
re. Party preference deals
Given the current structure of the party system I think that an elector deciding to follow the party line is up to the individual (freedom of choice).
Notwithstanding I do think that this and HTV cards are perversions designed to manipulate and desensitising the public to question and suggest...."the omnipotence of the PARTY (sic)".
Belly makes the valid point that party policy/choice of representative are usually made by a minority of the least appropriate individuals in society.

Foxy's concern about the Greens et al in the senate is another consequential distortion of the current PARTY driven electoral system.
Run off elections would be expensive and simply focus on the two biggies.Back to Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber emphasising the need for a 'Keep the Bastards' honest party.
It is a misnomer to call our party system democratic.

Just for the sake of discussion One might suggest the following
No officially recognized parties or structures in parliament
Halve the number of electorates.
Each electorate is the same number of voters,
Two members each electorate.
No negative advertising or references to other parties.

each local candidate has policy topics the electorate ticks their policies that they agree with....verifying mandates.
The policies most number of ticks on a candidates ballot is then a potential impeachable contract for that member.
The advantage here is putting the policy priorities back to the people. Determining mandates and what can be traded off and what can't.
It would make members responsible to the public and would give differentiated policies.

put the emphasis on democracy and policy not parties,tactics engage the public.

if you are too dumb to fill out the form then you are too dumb to vote.
Posted by examinator, Friday, 20 August 2010 12:02:12 PM
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This tool is what I use.

You can start with a parties preferences, edit to your taste, print out and bring on the day.

https://www.belowtheline.org.au/nsw/

How anyone would on the day be able to accurately rank 84 candidates is beyond me. The site also has a link to the policies of each party or independent wiki page etc.

This information should by rights be on the aec site. I wonder why it is not.

There is no need for political advertising. It should be banned. They ban it for 3 days out, they can ban it for the whole month.

All each party needs is one broadsheet page with their policies including links to more detailed information.

Oh the money saved...

The playing field levelled...
Posted by Houellebecq, Friday, 20 August 2010 12:12:03 PM
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