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The Forum > General Discussion > Will this be a win for the Libs but a loss for Democracy.?

Will this be a win for the Libs but a loss for Democracy.?

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Houellebecq,

We disagree no big surprise there.
IMHO
- your sports analogy is fatally flawed in that sport is discretionary and hardly important...no principle there.

- First past the post is in the case of politics is Malthusian .
Preferential voting actually gives the public more say in how the country is run....More DEMOCRATIC not Communist or Socialist.

True it's a safety valve against the one party running amok.
Preferential, Proportional multi representative electorates is probably the best way.

There is no genuine reason why we as human need to ignore evolution and simply revert to Malthusian logic for all our institutions save human willful curmudgeonry by an ignorant rump.
Posted by examinator, Thursday, 19 August 2010 10:01:02 AM
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<< My concern is that the Liberals will win the most number of seats but won't win the most number of votes >>

Xammy I’m not sure this is all that important. We could have a system whereby the total number of votes after the allocation of preferences decides the winner rather than the number of seats. But then we could possibly have the situation whereby the government actually has fewer seats than the opposition, and therefore would lose every non-bipartisan vote in the parliament and would be effectively blocked from developing its policies. It would effectively be a minority government even more so than if it had a majority of seats but a minority total vote.

I think that the system of regional representation by way of electorates is more important than the total vote count.

But what is vastly more important than this is that a very large portion of the votes that will put the winning party in power will not be votes of support for that party. They will be votes lodged on the basis of whichever party the voter feels is slightly less repulsive or by voters who really don’t give a hoot about who wins and will make their decision based on the flimsiest of information! THIS is the really important thing here.

And the ‘stealing’ of votes that happens within the compulsory preferential system, whereby a person’s vote can very likely end up counting where they don’t want it to after the allocation of preferences is another very important issue.

<< Preferential voting IS the best system. >>

I would agree that preferential voting is better than first-past-the-post, but only if the preferences are the real preferences of the voter and not allocated by parties to one another, as is the case with above-the-line voting in the senate, or preferences that are not necessarily of the voters choice as is the case with the disgracefully undemocratic compulsory preferential voting system.
Posted by Ludwig, Thursday, 19 August 2010 11:41:34 AM
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How accurately do you think you could rate your favourite 84 films?

Are you really sure number 56 is better than number 57?

It's a farce.
Posted by Houellebecq, Thursday, 19 August 2010 2:47:10 PM
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Examinator, what is the difference between this elction and most others?

Rarley is any elected party voted into office with a majority, that's +50% of the voters, as they usually form office with the help of preference votes from minor parties.

I say again, what's the difference.

Now on the election outcome, I very much doubt the libs will win, but at the very least the 'increased majority slogan' should be dead and buried.

The frightening part is this.

The rud government won a landslide victory over the howard/costello government.

The Abbott government is weaker today than the howard/costello one which was defeated by rud.

Gillard dumped rud and provided us with what she called 'a stronger government'.

So, if the gillard government is stronger than the one that deafeated the stronger coalition, why then are they fighting to retain office from a depleted coalition?

Let me know if anyone can figure that one out.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 19 August 2010 7:21:04 PM
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Dear Examinator,

The Party that gets the majority of individual votes
should govern the country.

The electorate distribution has always been a failing
in a popular vote.

I'm a bit hesitant about preferential voting because
it always leaves an elected government in debt to
a minor party. I'm sure that the Greens have done a
deal with Labor for their preferential votes.
And we will get the same treatment from the Greens
as the Emissions Trading Scheme did on other
important future programs with which they may not
agree.

In some countries, elections are held with voting for
multiple parties followed by a run-off election of
the two top parties. We need to look at various
alternatives to the system we currently have.
Why do the Libs have to rely on the Nationals, can't
they stand up on their own merit?
It seems to have been a problem for decades.
What about those that want to vote for Libs but not for
Nationals?
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 19 August 2010 7:31:46 PM
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At the instant the polls close ,it may take a week to know,half our country will be saddened by the outcome.
It may well be me, my humble pie will Be very big if it is so.
Lets look at the massive change from just months ago, honestly.
6 months ago Rudd would have walked in a DD election, he still then wanted an ETS and had not thought about the great unwindable battle mining tax would bring.
Every share holder putting those shares in front of our country.
Star recruits, do most know Garrett was imposed on his branch? who saw the person who beat Beat Howard do anything after she won?
Unfair as it is to compare NSW ALP a sick dead beast with federal Labor voters are.
Bad as it is I have no other path, after thinking reviewing understanding I MUST vote and hope for a Labor win.
The half country that will be unhappy are Australians and victory will be good for the winner but I fear the real Abbott the inside running given to miners without fair taxation I fear for the short term future of our country.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 20 August 2010 6:24:18 AM
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