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The Forum > General Discussion > Abbot and Liberals kowtow to gun fanatics

Abbot and Liberals kowtow to gun fanatics

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PatTheBogan,

How do you solve the problems of a World full of gun Violence and record pollution?

Is it bigger guns and more V8's ??
Posted by kartiya jim, Monday, 9 August 2010 11:18:59 PM
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I was thinking more guns and bigger V8's actually...
Posted by PatTheBogan, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 1:26:58 AM
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King Hazza, "....simple reason is I would need a lot of reassurances that if firearms were re-legalized: educational, cultural and restriction guidelines would be satisfying."

The population responsible for gun violence is a different population to licensed gun owners.

Just think about it for a moment - it has to be that way because you have to be a law-abiding citizen of good standing and with character references to obtain a licence in the first place. I mean, just how of do you hear of one of those 'dangerous' tweed-jacketed clay pigeon shooters, or Farmer Brown, sticking up a bank?

'Deputy' John Howard's thought bubble was that criminals would apply for gun licences and they would register their guns. Fail!

Now why would a outlaw motorcycle gang member out of Lakemba who can't even ride a Harley but is fully sick at selling crack down the Cross, ever comply with Howard's laws and rock on down to the police station to apply for a licence and register his Glock? It is just not going to happen, right?

However, John Hoard's 'initiative' was remarkable in two respects:

- firstly, at $1 Billion wasted taxpayers' dollars and counting it was the greatest single loss of money by any Australian government ever, a record! and

- secondly, John Howard's 'initiative' resulted in the introduction of 22 new taxes for licensed gun owners where there had only been one small licence fee before. But then John Howard's government was known for record casts of the javelin as far as the invention of new taxes was concerned, so making a milch cow out of another section of the population was only to be expected, I guess.
Posted by Cornflower, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 4:41:35 AM
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while I am unimpressed with the hype of this headline topic.
Notwithstanding what is over looked here is the attitudinal change towards fire arms in Australia over all achieved by Howard's initiative.

Guns in them selves are merely tools and no more dangerous than chain saws (The movie "Texas CS massacre" included ) the problem is the nut at the trigger end.

Australians are less likely to resort to guns and massacres as a means of dissatisfaction etc than an Americans.

Their fascination with guns tends to come from cultural myth that guns = control = power. It is also demonstrated that while there are sensible gun owners (target shooters and farmers), a vast number of gun owners are so because of the above outdated urban.

It's a bit like 4x4s many urban ones don't see dirt roads or the real need.

A number of my neighbours have boats that are rarely used maybe (once/twice a year) yet they are prepared to change a government over bay no fishing zones. The same goes for those neighbours who have guns.

All three issues tend to be visceral and as such out of proportion with reality.
The value of Howard's initiative was IMO his legacy 'a tendency to see guns as dangerous toys and tools with limited applicability (see them in perspective).'

Smoking, excess booze, recreational drugs, unnecessary speed demeaning attitudes to women, children, mental illness and other other prejudices are all in that same vein. Programs that reduce the negative impact of the above by changing cultural (delusional) perspectives are fine with me
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 10:14:23 AM
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So...
People who have boats and highly value the chance to go fishing once or twice a year are somehow less rational than others.

People who see the symbolic trust of their neighbours as very important are irrational compared with those who pass laws based on contempt for those people, however innocent they are.
Posted by ChrisPer, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 3:25:56 PM
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ChrisPer,

I'm sorry my response was a little too much for you to grasp the context.

In essence I was saying your headline was over top hype.

I was saying that the entire debate hung on out of perspective emotionalism.
Having a boat to go fishing twice a year is fine by me but to change a government because it closes the fish breeding areas from anglers is myopic to the point of idiocy.

likewise to argue that the social benefit from Howard's initiative doesn't exist or that it's not worth the expenditure.
It's all about getting things in perspective. I doubt that the public would accept going back to guns for all.

Of course the other issues are emotional but that doesn't mean they are correct or desirable. Arguing by comparison as you did is nonsense it's a bit like saying me Lizzy Borden should have been let free because she didn't kill as many people as Genghis Khan.

A blight on society ( fascination of guns given the motivations I stated) is a blight full stop.
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 4:42:01 PM
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