TBC

Suspended yes, deleted yes.

Have never descended to the depths of vitriol of some people I could name, but won't because I don't want another stoush, but people who can say really vile stuff and rarely (I won't say never) but rarely are 'disciplined' for really woeful comments and who are invariably neo-capitalist, claims to be religious - 'nuff said.

Sorry off-topic.

I can understand why some women would've been attracted to the sense of security that a church would offer in the olden days of yore, and I guess there is still enough fear out there for religion to look like it offers some sense of belonging and protection. We really need some outspoken female atheists of the stature of Dawkins, Harris et al - I don't see why all the books should be written by atheist men. I guess women will be playing 'catch-up' for a while yet.

Although with Julia as PM, some will infer that the struggle for equal rights is over, completely ignoring the fact that women still only make up a bare 30% of Australian pollies and even less of a percentage in big business - numbers of women on Wall Street?

And not forgetting your original premise for this thread - Women in the Christian Church continuing to be treated condescendingly.

TBC

The fact that Tony Abbot sinned like every other human being confirms the corrupt nature of us all. You are certainly a good example of that. Whether he has been to Christ for forgiveness only he knows. When one fails to call evil evil and good good is another matter. Ms Gillard continues to live in sin with no shame and wants to lead the nation. As far as I know Abbott has acknowledged his corrupt nature and actions. You obviously have not. The failure to face one's own sin and corruption leads to denial. That is why we see such deceitfulness in Ms Gillard who sees nothing wrong with stabbing someone in the back in order to be promoted. The means justifies the ends in her warped view. This sits well with secular humanism which changes the to rules to fit their dogma.

I am married to a very devout Roman Catholic who prays everyday and feels guilty if she forgets.

Albeit I am a not-very-devote protestant, her devotion is a source of admiration and respect by me.

Whilst some here seem to revel in commenting on what other people believe, I think to “judge” is a measure of their own limits and inadequacies which is being reflected.

That they lack the tolerance, maturity and basic understanding to accept the diverse values and beliefs associated with “faith” as exercised by others, when those beliefs, values and faith in no way hinders their own (beliefs, values or faith or lack there of).

It seems to me to be a feature of the squalid collectivists that we have a series of threads of a similar nature supposedly discussing the merits of Marxist/Leninist atheism and now a another thread initiated by a someone who failed to persuade anyone previously.

Like I said, we seems to have squalid collectivists, repeating the same as they have always done –

criticism of those who have sufficient faith in themselves and their beleifs that they do not need the bland, lifeless philosophy of that great nothingness known as collectivist (by so many different names) and the parallel nothingness of its endorsed and enforced atheism

aAAAH at last.. Pericles is back :) I've missed the attacks.. have been getting a bit blunt lately without your always constructive criticism to sharpen me.

But Fraccy first.. errr.. uppity women ? :) Fraccy dear.. you can be as uppity as you like.. no biggy in the slightest, just don't try to bring those 'uppity' ideas into any local Church unless you want your wings clipped.. as would happen to man or women who tried the 'uppity' thing.

Back to Pericles. No old son.. I don't see a contradiction in what I said.. but your little jab there did make an important point in terms of Christian fellowship and local ecclesiastical life.

You ask "Are they servants or are they leaders".. Let's let the Lord himself answer that eh ?

Mark 9:35
35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all."

Amazing how clear it is when you avail yourself of the Lord's teaching.

You see.. Fraccy is paralyzed with fear and energized by bitterness about 'position' in Christian circles, she is worried about being 'downtrodden'... but how can one who serves tread down those he/she serves?
Because of her first false premise, the 2nd follows naturally.

I think you, Pericles, are a bit in the same boat but with slightly less bitterness.(in your case I think it's contempt (for the Church))

So...where've you been for these past few weeks eh ? let us know in future when ur going to leave so we don't experience sudden withdrawal symptoms or separation anxiety :)

I'm sure the hypothetical BHP directive would be howled down as should your ill informed vilification.

Your ignorance of the female ordination issue and desperation to slander Christian Churches doesn't make your analogy valid.

I don't suppose you will be interested in the background but the Christian belief is that God is in charge and God's will is what must be followed rather than The Blue Crosses most negative possible inferences. The relevant Churches believe that God has a particular spiritual function for men whilst explicitly confirming the equality and respectworthiness of women. In that context the belief that women can't step into the shoes of a male Jesus in certain rituals which are required in priesthood cannot be considered derogatory or some type of slight based on gender. It is the same mindset that prohibits a paraplegic from being fire fighter without paraplegics protesting that they are looked down upon or evil or some other garbage. In one case it is a physical requirement in another a spiritual requirement and in the case of the spiritual requirement it is better for those who don't match because physical ability is valued but priests have a bad reputation. In the above premises it is unsurprising that the most spirited defences I have seen are from women eg.:
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0001.html

I concede that the idea that women be so evil and threatening that even God, who so kindly created them, regard them as being as bad as having sex with a child is an imaginative straw man.

That is very loosely based on a Catholic amendment to a document dealing with serious breaches of sacraments. Priests sinning is not condoned but to do so in the context of a sacrament is considered particularly serious. That doesn't mean (and the Vatican specifically noted) that attempting to elicit sex (including with children) in a confessional equates to ordaining women or that stringing such a long bow as to infer an indication women are evil or threatening is legitimate.

AlGoreIsRich makes a good point. Priesthood is not about seeking glory even if detractors would use it for that function themselves and view the female ordination issue through that lens. In the Christian religion accepting a vocation as pastor is about sacrificing a more selfish lifestyle for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus specifically condemned those who tried to use religion for personal glory (albeit in that case members of the laity who usurped the formal priestly/pastoral role cf. the priesthood of believers - long story).