I wonder how many of us saw that 'kiss' and hug between "Phony Tony" and Julia?

Damn..... how can you get all fired up and 'hate' dat opposition (the one's you don't wanna vote for) when the leaders are cuddling up ?

I'm confused. (u knew that)

Tony wants to can the uber tin cans/strings thing...(BBN) which I want, and Julia is looking more like Tony in drag by the day....

Now...they are KISSING and loving each other on national TV.. it's all too much.

Nevertheless, there is a great lesson in that rather *passionate* political moment..it's possible to disagree and yet still care for and express warmth toward another person.

Tony is being too nice to be PM at the moment. He seems like a sock puppet mouthing scripted words.. too scared to say much with any passion for fear of being mocked.. Julia has the required basketballs,
and even has very "LNP" policies on some critical issues (echo's of One Nation/LiberalNational take up ?) So.... I have a theory.

Lurking in the background....stealing the thunder and show.. Peter Costello lurks as the standout Choice for a sudden last minute change of leadership costume. (any thoughts?)

For discussion, are there any lessons in the Gillard/Abbot'moment of warmth' in terms of difference of opinion and attitude toward those we disagree with?

Well we really don't need to see a love in at the election. More co-operative attitudes during the term would be better. Tony is doing what Tony was always going to do. Now the election campagne is afoot he has gone into his shell. Scared that under direct questioning he will make a meal of the answers. The thing on his side is that he stands for what Howard stands for and in certain areas of government like administrative process and execution that is a winner for him. Unfortunately the whole work choices thing won't go away and his answers varied just enough for a media with nothing better to do than make a mountain out of a mole hill.

The sore toe for me are the debates. Again only one and no third party involvement. I am rarely swayed by anything that is said or done in an election campagne. If you haven't got an idea as to how the government is performing by now you weren't paying attention. I do enjoy the debates though, they tell you a lot about a leaders and parties own understanding of the policy they carry. Also the body language and eye movement tell us who is, well telling porky pies. The three debate system the Pom's used recently seems not to bad and having the third party there kept it interesting. It didn't become votes for the DLP as i doubt it would for the Greens either. It would give the others a chance to nail Bob on some issues and see how well he stands up to the focus. Of course you run the risk he performs well and the greens get an even bigger cut of the Senate making it harder to say they are unrepresentative.

AGIR... "Tony is being too nice to be PM at the moment. He seems like a sock puppet mouthing scripted words.. too scared to say much with any passion for fear of being mocked"

I'd describe that as 'situation normal'.

Abbott has not-much to offer within his politics, maybe a tad more than Julie Bishop having watched her make a total goose of herself, again, on Q&A.

There is no need for Abbott to be 'not nice' to Gillard, in fact, I hope he doesn't fall for that trap, but he does need to question her lack of policy clarity, and her years of sticking up for Rudd's personal views imposed on the ALP as ALP policy.

Julie Bishop did say one intelligent thing last night, when she called on Gillard to define what was meant by 'sustainable'.

Good move, and it's about time a few journo's started asking that question too.

Clearly, Costello is not coming back, but Turnbull might be able to if Abbott loses the election.

As far as the 'debates' go... well, really, about as useful as a Y4 Debating Society effort aren't they?

If anyone relies on these to 'learn' anything, they perhaps should not be voting?

Polycarp,
There is a very true axiom in Politics that goes
" oppositions don't win Elections...Governments lose them."

Tony's political strategy is to keep a low profile so that he isn't a easy target and get the Labor to shoot themselves in their own nether region and emphasis their " PR failings". He is hoping JG inexperience will give him government.
Competence, policy and leadership are all faded ideals of a by gone era.
Today politics is a blood sport between two teams of self interested,
egotistic, opportunists, obsessed with the acquisition and maintenance of personal power. To facilitate those apparent goals, negativity, internecine chicanery, politicking and public manipulation (spin ) are the order of the day. Oh yes...I forgot (silly me) In order to justify the above as having some larger/noble purpose, morphing elastic policies to give the perception of government.

Anything short of this IMO is disingenuous in the least and delusional at worse.

We as a 'nation?'get what we deserve.

Memories on OLO must be short not to remember that the long-suffering and silent vast majority of voters have expressed disgust for politicians who oppose for the sake of opposing and act like clowns in parliament.

There is also a growing exasperation in the electorate with politicians and parties who obviously have no intention of pulling their weight in parliament and contributing in positive and constructive ways to the betterment of Australia. Fair enough too, politicians should be measured for their individual productivity too and there are well-known phantoms in both State and federal houses who are known only for their abuse of perks and overseas travel.

Who could ever forget the well-remunerated opposition who thought they ought to be paid more because their dislodgement from the government benches had resulted in the loss of income and lavish lifestyle? Who forgets the big schoolboy Costello, who took a long holiday in opposition to write (well sort of draft, father-in-law helped) his dud memoirs?

However the really odd man out at present is the Greens - the protest party that makes no pretence of putting forward practical policies that include all Australians and waste Senate time.

Strangely enough, the APS has been unable to estimate the all-up annual cost (salary, perks, travel and overheads) of maintaining individual federal politicians, but the minimum cost is known to be in excess of a million dollars per annum. What performance and productivity should a taxpayer expect for a cool $1 million a year? It would have to be better than the occasional grandstanding in front of a camera, right?

Yep...that Axiom is one I've quoted myself many times.

In Tony's case though, I think his low profile and very hesitatingly and domino stacked sentences seem more to indicate he is worried about his former gaff about speaking truth all the time :)

TBC.. I'm curious about your own position.. you seem to have some criticism for all from what I see..which is a good thing.

Personally I'm middle of the road.. I abhor "union" run political parties as much as I abhor "Business run" types... but I'm afraid I just don't have any time for the watermelons :) the reasons are a few...

But the one big one that stands out is the issue of their "Sustainable climate bill"..ooooh my 113 pages if memory serves me right.

As the prophet of all things green and socialist in the USA, Joel Rogers said "Even if we shut down EVery power plant and took EVery car off the road now.. (leaving the economy at a standstill) we would not be down to 60% of 1995 emissions".... (I'll check my figures on that..but look him up on youtube.

The main problem with the Greens sustainability stuff is that it's not sustainable :)

Yes, I tink Squeers was trying to make that point, in a previous posting thread, that our current pace is not sustainable.

There were howls of protest from the 'right'.

I have not read the docos you write about, and frankly cannot be bothered to either, but I detect a greater degree of trying to deal with the issues in the Greens, than in any other political grouping.

I do indeed treat all political promises as lies, whoever they come from, since the same small piece of ground is being fought for by all of them.

There is no answer to our dilemma.

I think we simply have to implode, before anything will change.

Implode_b4_change?

Quite_possibly.

On the 'Howls of protest from the Right'... I consider myself very conservative, which is supposed to make me 'Right' no ? but I am with you 100% on the consumption issue. We are indeed trying to grow and flourish, but unless it has a firm and enduring foundation, we will be like that grass which grows in segments... each segment is mean't to put down roots, and if it didn't.... then the whole thing will be blown around by the wind..buffalo or couch..not sure which.

There is an answer..but it is found in ourselves.

a) We need to stop electing people on the basis of our own hip pocket nerve.

b) We need to revise our attitudes about what we think life 'owes' us... the Christian view on that is 'our daily bread'... anything after that's a bonus.

I recommend an examination of the life of the early Church, a pattern on which it seems marxism is based, though wrongly. Marxism seeks to enshrine redistribution of wealth in government legislation but all that does is create frustration, and eventually if it becomes harsh enough outright revolution.

'Renewal of heart, and good will' are the hallmarks of a vibrant successful society.

Acts 2:44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.

Comment:
That attitude is easily fragmented by lack of attention to our daily walk.

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.”- 1 John 1:7

In the case of the early Church (referred to in Acts 2) they lasted a few years perhaps..before ethnic rivalry and suspicion eroded the purity of their walk. See Acts 6

1 In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.

Daily...moment by moment.. on going...is how our 'walk' should be.

examinator:>> Tony's political strategy is to keep a low profile so that he isn't a easy target and get the Labor to shoot themselves. He is hoping JG inexperience will give him government. Competence, policy and leadership are all faded ideals of a by gone era.<<

The Libs campaign strategy is as weak as it is hopeful. Abbott is the innocent, his political blemishes are not current, yet he has been on the defensive from day one because he is a klutz. The only saving grace is that he is only a figure head and he has an experienced professional team with conservative fiscal policies behind him, at a time when we need exactly that.

Gillard and the incumbent govt are as blemished as unsprayed fruit, but they face the electorate as if nothing has happened, with rhetoric about big plans and promises they move forward untouched by their track record.

Abbott feels he has to be all things to all people so he addresses everything put to him, a naive strategy that he believes represents him to the electorate as an "honest direct bloke" who speaks from the heart. The electorate is motivated by sound bites, quick blogs of information that directly pertains to them.

The strategy should be a campaign based on "before and after". Other than the release of the major policy initiatives I would doggedly only speak track record, with the "before and after" to combat the "moving forward" Labor theme.

Before.............................After
Govt surplus $20 billion...... Govt debt $140 billion

Grocery watch/ fuel watch/ rent watch
Grocery up 8%/ bread up 11%
Electricity up 35%/ Gas up 24%
Water up 29%/ Rents up 15%

Boarder protection 2007/148 illegal’s
2009/ 2750
May 2010/ 2982....
etc, etc, ad infinitum

The Libs should keep telling the electorate that we are in trouble and these guys did it to us.

sonofgloin,

Did you get party approval for you political advert?

Objectivity and facts are, well, light on and some what biasly creatively expressed.
Tony is the innocent? MABINLOL :-\

You will be pleased to note that the incompetent that is our sitting member will probably returned ...he one of your lot.
NB Pound for pound person for person the Labor's candidate is equally uninspiring....they say the search squad are out looking for the Greens Candidate they report that they have good 3rd party intel that suggests that he's still alive. Then we have the independents . Is it to late to start a limited political cleansing and start again?

You'll recognize me at the booth I'll be the one who snarls and spits like annoyed Tassie Devil at all the how to vote cards distributors

The kiss was not confusing. Campaigning these days seems nothing more than a game - a bunch of slogans and statements which only mean something if there is follow through. It comes down not only to policy differences but trust.

In real life the two leaders may actually get on okay. During the Hawke Government there were two MPs who shared a house together one from Lib and one from Labor. Rudd and Hockey were believed to like and get on with each other in RL. They are only human even if they sometimes look like sock puppets.

I would rather they both just be themselves and it is good to see some human interaction that does not involve pseudo sparring and one-upmanship all the time. It all wears a bit thin.

Just wish there could be some more bipartisan approach to important policy areas.

I'd be more interested if either one mentioned anything about addressing the shambles left from the imposition into Northern Territory Aboriginal communities.

Has either party said anything about providing concrete assistance like social workers and police officers deployed in remote locations?

Any bans, fast fines or gaol for grog, drug and porn runners distributing their wares at outrageous prices ?

Any legal, support and transport teams and community-matched town facilities for children, women and men who need to be removed from violent situations?

Any mobile dental or medical clinics operating frequently in remote locations?

Any mobile courts set up working in unison with Community Elders?

Has any sort of Aboriginal Consulting group been formed to work day by day with a knowledgeable hands on team (like trained nurses; social workers; dentists; doctors; educators and others with experience in community development, funding and procurement) to plan initiatives that accord with community ideas and needs?

I haven't seen anything in the news lately. Has anyone else?

The problem is that Tony is just too nice.

He obviously took one look at Julia & could see she is lacking any affection in her life, & tried to help. Julia is obviously one of those who will take a cuddle anywhere she can get one, lets face it, she'd have to, with her voice, looks, & disposition to stabbing people in the back.

I hope his minders checked Tony for sharp implements left in his back, after the episode.

If we are silly enough to elect her, we'll have to pull knives out of our economy every night.

examinator:>> Did you get party approval for you political advert?
You will be pleased to note that the incompetent that is our sitting member will probably returned ...he is one of your lot.<<

E, I booted Howard for work choices, I booted Fraser because of his support for Mugabe, the Khmer Rouge, and the recognition of Indonesia’s sovereignty of Timor. I am booting the current Labor feds because they could not organize a chook raffle in a pub. My reason is not because of "social issues" as with the previously booted, it is primarily the economic incompetence and waste of the money they had, and the ongoing waste of the money they borrowed. I am nobody's "boy" I make decisions based on track record.

Hasbeen:>> The problem is that Tony is just too nice.
Julia is obviously one of those who will take a cuddle anywhere she can get one, lets face it, she'd have to, with her voice, looks, & disposition to stabbing people in the back.<<

H, politicians are not "nice". They are egocentric and primarily self serving. Our quest is to find a "lot" who feels some responsibility to the electorate and makes decisions based on what the electorate wants, rather than the myriad of lobby groups that stalk the corridors of power. Further to that I would need them to be at least partially competent.

Finally Julia is a product of her gene pool; it is vindictive to attack her on any issue other than her performance as a paid parliamentarian

sonofgloin,
Thank you for that, I stand corrected.

The problem is that the public is 'schizoid' about management i.e. they are happy to crucify the MD of BHP yet the board and management are untouched...
Conversely the public are taring JG with Rudd's management. i.e. what happened under Rudd is her fault.
In reality it is clear that the Labor government was DOMINATED by Rudd.
I can't see that Julia as the 2IC had that much of a final say. Smartness on her part would have dictated hat she didn't rip into or complain too loud. Was she gutless...no point to any corp 2IC and their effectiveness depends entirely on the Boss.

JG once she took over, the means of which was/is part and parcel of life at the top, she stepped in and clearly made the changes that needed making. Any new Boss worth their salt would have done the same (including corporately)

If the truth be known the man who has taken over at BP US would not have been a passive player he could have said no thanks I support the outgoing.

JG has and will stamp HER way the team operates. I.e. I doubt that she would have vacillated so long as Kevin did on issues she would have gone about the issues differently (she is a skilled and accomplished negotiator).
Lumping her with KR is bollocks (party spin)emotional reasoning

The thing about politics is it's ALL "spin". Even personal politics at work, home and play is "spin". That's the nature of politics, that's why it's "politics".

Politics is about "belief". All sides of the political spectrum are EXACTLY the same in this regard.

Whilst our "cumulative" knowledge as a species has enabled us to reach our current state of technology, our actual intellectual capacity remains much the same as it was during the stone age ...... "politics" is one prime example of our intellectual incapacity.

examinator:>> JG has and will stamp HER way the team operates.
Lumping her with KR is bollocks (party spin)emotional reasoning.<<

I agree with both statements. Julia is a professional politician and Kevin is a professional bureaucrat.
I have friends and relatives who are staffers and public servants in Canberra. We never discuss “politics" per say but we whine to each other about our jobs, as all friends do.

From these sources I gleaned early in the term that Kevin was a one man show thanks to his ego. While Julia stuck around for the first year and did everything, Kevin travelled overseas working to secure his next career move. The girl is a talent no doubt; I have seen her get to Kerry O’Brian many times, she knows her stuff without script or prompts.

My issue is with the Labor team, not just the decision makers. Every project they have touched could have reaped double the reward to “we” the people, the ones who have to pay it back. We paid up to double the market rate for every project from solar and pink batts to the BER fiasco. The sub contractor at the bottom of the heap was paid market rate for their toil but the bill to the tax payer was double.

I know that the NSW Labor Govt siphoned off a load of it in management and implementation frauds, they needed the money desperately, and in regard to the BER the primary contractors took a ridiculous amount to make a phone call to the poor sod that actually did the work at market rate. We could have had twice as much stimulus but the Ministers implementing the projects did not do the basics, take care of our interests. You can build a 5 bedroom house for $300K, yet a portable BER shed cost $800K because the deal went through the State Education Dept and a handful of primary contractors.

Julia or no Julia the team is flawed.

examinator and sonofglin:

Here's an interesting insider view that confirms what you are saying:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/no-one-assassinated-rudd-he-simply-topped-himself/story-e6frg6zo-1225897188218

Wow. Ugly stuff.

Pynchme, yes that is the sort of stuff I had been regaled with. My first concern was the fact that Kevin had aspirations towards the U.N. and climate change was his ticket to the UN swill bucket. It seems to have worked with a U.N. job now sitting out there waiting for him. I want my P.M to have the leadership of my country as the ultimate career move, not just the stepping stone to his ego driven future.

sonofgloin,

Sadly, it is the system that is flawed in that it attracts and fosters the selfish side of candidates.

By the way, the Libs have "hinted at a promotion" for our suspect Member.
Could it be because of the wonderful job he's doing for the country? nah. The electorate? nah. Clearly it is to help not lose a seat to the Labor or greens. With this sort of motivation any wonder we have such a flawed lot in parliament.The idea that this individual is to become a minister ....heaven help us.

Both sides simply want the bums on seats in parliament for party interests. KR is supported for the same reason.

My big concern with your desire that PMs consider that as the ultimate job flies in the face of the above motivational/egotistical pressures.

The article quoted while probably true in one aspect it is full of revenge...and a myopic ego.

I would challenge that journo to tell me of his senior management experience that permits him to knowledgeably sit in judgement.

It's a bit like the beat up from ABC24 about KR not attending all meetings of the national security committee et al.
The story is predicated on the basis of the importance of the members of the committee. i.e. their egos were bent.

They admit he was there for all major issues and across them.
My point is, that much is said about Rudd but objectively his flaws were that he tried to do it all himself thus offending others' egos..

Clearly he's not a team player. isn't the result, substance, better than a cuddly vacuous personality (Hockey) or rhetoric drive (Pyne)? In the final analysis his approach was inappropriate but beyond that, comment is largely subjective and egocentrically based.

Do not start me on the journeyman Pyne. A law degree and liberal apprenticeship, Pyne is a robot. You would like to believe that in certain portfolios such as health and education that the minister would be simpatico with the portfolio. Pyne had aging and now he has education, save us. As I said he is not just a party career man, but a groomed apparatchik from first year uni. Straight into a Lib job, then into a safe Lib seat, and nothing comes out except rhetorical regurgitation.

This sums him up, from a fellow South Australian just before the 2007 election:

"Having met many times and having been to many functions with the distinguished Mr. Pyne, I can tell you comfortably that he is a prat. He is arrogant, clueless on most subjects and cannot hold a conversation without marketing himself constantly."

E, the Party chooses the prat, and then they parade this passionless prat in front of us. But I am still voting Labor out.

Who is your local prat? The one you have taken such a shine to.

Well Blue Cross, if it is implosion we must have better buckle up because it will make the man from Snowy River's ride look like a sedate trot in the park.

sonofgloin,

Snap! I've met Pyne (ocleen) too and like the product, his advertising is better than his performance.

I have the same lame (hint) excuse of a candidate here, same party same self aggrandising attitude too... a party trend perhaps. one of the LNP state members is similarly inclined...both are out of their depth when it comes to understanding the public....almost born to rule inclined.

There is a notion up here amongst some that the 64 votes that got the Lame fed member in were indeed "postal" (they were crazy destructive .. like the Douglas in the movie). Our last Labor member was a nice bloke but well out of his depth too. Intelligence, a sense of duty to the people, integrity, competence are attributes sorely missing in politics.

Sonof....

I forgot to note that it is the individuals' inappropriateness for their roles as representative that I am commenting on. Also not all polis are devoid of relevant good qualities...rather it's the system that brings out the self-interest and or attracts that kind.

The fact that I don't like the lame fed member as a person doesn't influence my assessment of this fitness to the job he holds.
- I bear no personal dislike fore the state member as a person
- I also am ambivalent about a labor member I know but he is competent at his job.
As for the three Libs I celebrate the unemployment cheque coming to them I hope soon.