CJ.. you called me a hypocrite!..... and of course, you are absolutely correct. Any human less than 100% perfect who speaks about Godly things is by definition one who 'preaches' but does not practice 100%. So.. no drama in calling me that.

The 'topic' is Marxism and Leninism..but STG quotes this in his opening post:

//"The great historic service rendered by materialist philosophy is that it helped man to break free of all superstitions. Ever since ancient times it has taught him not to fear death, not to fear gods and other supernatural forces.//

Which makes M/L an attack on religion. Thus.. it forms a legitimate part of the varying perspectives which rightly approach the subject matter.

I realize in CJ's dark Orwellian "Ministry of Truth" world.. people like me won't be allowed to speak..but until your mob runs the show, I think I'm entitled to a point of view. *thanx*.

Returning to the topic... STG says:

[What's even more interesting is the rhetoric versus the man made reality of that Atheist ideology.]

STG...It might be man made..but I'd hesitate to call it a 'reality'.
Man made 'theory' is ok... but reality ? nope.. can't go there.
The ideology is of course a reality, i.e. a 'real' set of ideas, even though they hold little water.

Dear StG,

Thanks for this thread.

Interesting topic.

Karl Marx claimed, the dominant religion in
any society is always the religion of its
economically and politically dominant class,
and it always provides a justification for
existing inequalities and injustices. The
dominant religion legitimates the interests
of the ruling class and, like a narcotic, lulls
the oppressed into acceptance of their lot.

Karl Marx proclaimed passionately:

"Man makes religion, religion does not make
man... Religious suffering is at the same time
an expression of real suffering and a protest
against real suffering. Religion is the sigh
of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a
heartless world, and the soul of soulless
conditions. It is the opium of the people..."

Karl Marx conceded that in very simple,
preindustrial societies that have no class
divisions, religion is simply a matter of
superstition. In all other socieites, he insisted,
the dominant religion supports the status quo and
diverts the attention of the oppressed from their
real problems.

Inspired by Marx's critique, all communist-ruled
societies tolerate religion only reluctantly, and
are officially atheistic. This is a point their
leaders occasionally overlook. At a Vienna summit
meeting in 1979, the Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev
commented that "God will not forgive us if we fail."
And in 1985 Mikhail Gobachev, told Western reporters,
"Surely God on high has not refused to give us
enough wisdom to find ways to bring an improvement
in our relations."

Neither remark was reported in the Soviet media.

cont'd ...

Then of course there's the wonderful
Dennis Pryor, who with his tongue-in-cheek,
comical, critical, cynical, sceptical,
ironical, satirical dictionary of Australian
politics, called, "Political Pryorities,"
defines Marxism as:

"A common term of abuse used by the Religious
Right to rubbish the Left. Marxism is a
nineteenth century religion now split into
many sects with no present signs of an
ecumenical movement. Its adherents recite
such ejaculatory prayers as "class struggle,"
and "capitalist exploitation" without seeing
any need to read the writings of their divinity."

Peter Hume,

Yeah, exactly, thanks for speaking for me. That's EXACTLY what this topic is about and THANKS for your input. Very much valued, and seriously, I'll share that piece of input with my kids.

Severin,

No, not really.

ALGOREisRICH,

K, whatever you reckon.

Foxy,

My pleasure. Thanks for your input. Interesting.

I have always found ST G a bit hard to understand.
Not unhappy with him just find it hard to keep track of some views.
Never more than when he defends Christianity against the likes of me.
I am in no way communist, to separate communism from Marxism Leninism is as strange as comparing a non believer to one of the above.
Yet that seem,s to be the proposal
ST G are you aware Christianity is just one of many beliefs?
That clearly it is under challenge as the biggest one in the world?
It must be said in not believing most do so based on the science, not to hurt your feelings.
You are becoming more like runner who lashes out at any attempt to say I have a different view of Gods and think/know man made them and uses them today for control.

Belly

You are not alone - I am as confused by St G as anyone. And now he is going to tell his kids that "god won't like us, right" that P Hume wrote.

Foxy

Thank you for your posts. I haven't read any Marx. I think I should now. You are eloquent as always and, I think you were on topic, but I'm not really sure.

StG

I asked you for examples of "atheist ideology" as there is no book of atheism. Unlike any other ideology be it Marxism or Christianity, no one has to follow any proscription. You claim different, please give an illustration of what you mean.