David f

You are correct. The problem is "true believers" of whatever stripe. I have equal difficulty having a rational discussion about climate change with both deniers and greenies. Both in their own way are true believers.

Severin,

The reason I brought up Islam is because the originator of this thread is a Muslim who has been using it to peddle his loathsome belief system. It is he who turned this into an Islam versus atheist - not Islam versus Christianity - thread.

David f

What have you discovered about fungi?

Stevenlmeyer

Please, I have been around OLO for far too long (many people would agree with that) not to know you bring up the worst of Islam at the drop of a prayer mat. Yes, Islam has many loathsome aspects, however a muslim has every right to discuss fundamentalism in general and, instead, receive (from you) an attack on his/her religion. As an atheist, I find much to be abhorred with Grateful's misunderstanding of atheism, however it is a misunderstanding shared by Christians and other orthodox religions that a simple non-belief has a dogma which can then be used for fundamentalist beliefs.

However, Grateful's comment does reveal that one needs a doctrine to have fundamentalism. There is no doctrine for atheism. Now had you picked up on that issue, I would not be berating you for your fave target: Islam.

Davidf

You do well on your mycology studies - I presented a mycological project in secondary school which was failed because the teacher did not believe I did the project myself (if anyone knew my parents they'd know I never got any help) - when I was young I loved taking early morning walks, the best time to observe just what the fungi had been up to overnight. Fascinating stuff - with doubt as to where it fits into animal or vegetable.

Cheers

Dear Stevenlmeyer,

Cladistics and fossil evidence show fungi originated during the Ordovician period 450 to 500 million years ago. Fungi have a diet of fats, protein and carbohydrates. They ingest proteins by exuding fluid breaking protein into its constituent amino acids. Then the fungi take in the amino acids and create new molecules. There are analogous processes for fats and carbohydrates.

1,500,000 species are estimated to exist, but only 60,000 have been described.

I have learned to recognise not only fungi in the field but other associated plants. Eg Ash tree boletes are found near ash trees. I have learned techniques in microscopy, taxonomic classification and photography relevant to fungi.

I am concentrating on four genera – Calvatia, Campanella, Copelandia and Fomes. When I become an expert on those I will be able to tell whether a specimen belonging to those genera is an existing species belonging to those genera or not. If not further examination will determine whether it is a new species or merely one that belongs to another genus.

Ethnic attitudes to fungi vary widely.

Shelley used mushroom images to underscore total disintegration and decay of a garden.

“Plants to whose names the verses feel loath
Filled the place with a monstrous undergrowth,
Prickly and pulpous and blistering and blue,
And agarics and fungi and mildew and mould
Started like mist from the wet ground cold,
Pale fleshly as if the decaying dead
With a spirit of growth had been animated!

Their moss rotted off them, flake by flake,
Till the thick stalk stuck like a murderer’s stake,
Where rags of loose flesh yet tremble on high,
Infecting the winds that wander by.

The above is a typical English attitude toward fungi.

Unlike the Anglo-Saxons and their Puritan tendencies Asian cultures actively admire the phallic nature of some fungi. In Japan, the more phallic the appearance, the greater the price.

To Japanese mushroom hunting can even be a mystical experience.

My voice
Becomes the wind
Mushroom hunting.

Shiku (nineteenth-century Japanese poet)

Those are some of the things I have learned about fungi

Dear Severin,

Many biologists classify life into five kingdoms: prokaryotes or bacteria, protoctista or one-celled eukaryotes, plants, fungi and animals.

Morphology and cladistics put the fungi closer to animals. One characteristic fungi share with animals is their integument. The outer covering of mushrooms is chitin. This is the same as the integument of insects.

English Christian attitudes have promoted a fear and distaste of mushrooms.

Many of the early English naturalists were Church of England clergy who supported a study of nature as a means to exhibit the glory of creation. Unfortunately they did not consider all creation as the work of God.

From page 19 of "Fungi" by Roy Watling:

The reasons for the lack of scientific knowledge of fungi compared with groups such as mammals, fish, birds and flowering plants originate with the early naturalists. They usually considered the fungi to be connected with the devil, and studying them at all was frowned upon by the church, right up to the 19th century, when the rest of natural history was blossoming. As a result of this taboo, scientific understanding of fungi, and especially their classification, has been hindered so much that it is no exaggeration to say that it lags almost 100 years behind that of many organisms. Thankfully, this unfortunate state of affairs is now rapidly changing as biologists appreciate the importance of these remarkable organisms and are searching for them in previously unexplored habitats.

David f

I became interested in fungi when I started reading stories like these:

Obscure Fungus Produces Diesel Fuel Components

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=112581

Cloth-Eating Fungus Could Make Fuel

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=C8ED057F-D32E-34B5-4DF78025550EB35B

Newly Uncovered Enzymes Turn Corn Plant Waste into Biofuel

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=corn-biofuel-enzymes

So what do you think David f? We've heard quite a bit about cultivating algae for fuel. What about fuel from fungi?

Dear stevenlmeyer,

I don’t know whether fuel from fungi is a good idea or not. It depends on how much it costs to set up the facilities and what social effects such an effort will have. Biofuels from corn was touted as a good idea. However, it has meant an increase in food prices as food production is diverted into fuel production.

I think it more worthwhile to decrease our impact on the environment.

There are simply too many humans around for the carrying capacity of the planet. If we don’t decrease the number of humans by reasonable means it will be done by conflict, starvation, pestilence etc. I think a good way to reduce the number of humans peacefully is to see that every girl and woman has access to education. Uneducated women gain status by being baby making machines. Educated women have other choices. Education for women should be a top priority.

Economic and political decisions should be made considering environmental consequences. I am horrified that the leader of a major party can say that climate change is ‘crap’.

We can educate people in general to the environmental consequences of their acts. I used to guide people on nature walks at Osprey House and Roma Street Parklands in Brisbane. Unfortunately I have had to give that up as my hearing loss in the higher frequencies makes it difficult to hear the treble voices of little children. We must reach them as they are the future.

I see it as necessary to counter the ignorance promoted by fundamentalist religion as to the life sciences with their promotion of Creationism and Intelligent Design. I am trying to do that by writing articles for OLO promoting separation of religion and state.

We had a good meeting of the Queensland Mycological Society last night with a speaker on “Fungal Genetics” followed by a supper which featured items made with mushrooms. The price of determining the genome of a fungus is down to $5,000.

http://bugs.bio.usyd.edu.au/learning/resources/Mycology/ is the address of a free course on mycology.