Well hello there Grateful... thought we lost you there for a bit.

You said:

//I have replied to AGIR and AJ Philips concerning their accusations of paedophilia against the Prophet and even myself,//

a) I did NOT accuse your prophet of Paedophilia. If you think I did..show me!

b) I did not accuse YOU of it... if I did..show me!

What I DID... is invite an atheist to read a section of the Quran and then to share with us that ISLAMIC opinion... by a recent scholar (he died only in 1979) and his opinion is abiding.. ie.. he was unpacking the 'eternal word of Allah' for us..in the here and now.

What he explained has nothing to do with 'back then' but everything to do with 'here and now'.

Which of course is the basis of my criticism. I'ts also why I draw comparisons with other cults where sexual abuse is practiced.. Children of god being one.

Let me repeat... I asked AJ to look... and see.. and he told us what he saw. If anyone had the honesty to check it for themselves..they would find the same thing.. including you, rather than give surreal spin to try to make a clear text say something it does not.

You refer to 'modern scholars'.. tripe.. absolute tripe. Maududi IS a 'modern and respected scholar' and another who was invited to Melbourne for a major conference by the mainstream Muslims here (Melb) is non other than Sheikh Bilal Phillips..and I can assure you..seeing him on video justifying old 50s or 60s Muslim men marrying 8 or 9 yr old girls.. was quite stunning.

If you (this includes other posters) have no problem with those kinds of values being promoted in Australia..then God help Australia..

AJ...sorry for making you feel a bit uncomfy :) Once you start focusing on the 'dark' side of Islam..it tends to explode in all directions, as per Gratefuls frenzied and hysterical denials.

Dear grateful,

In your post you seem to want others to accept your religion. I don't think there is an absolute morality which decides what is right and wrong for everybody. I have absolutely no argument with the fact that Muslims can have four wives. However, that does not mean that someone living in Australia can have four wives. What's right and wrong for you is not right and wrong for me. You asked that all should be aware that Allah is aware of all we do. I think it is nonsense that there is any entity that is aware of all we do.

Dear AGIR,

You wrote: "Once you start focusing on the 'dark' side of Islam..it tends to explode in all directions"

That is true for Christianity and many other religions. Why focus on the dark side of Islam and ignore the dark side of your religion? You find Koranic naughty bits but ignore Jesus’ advice to look at your own.

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Bishop Spong tries to improve Christianity by looking at its bad parts and not following them.

http://www.johnshelbyspong.com/bishopspongon_theTerribleTexts.aspx
(go to the website for full text.)

RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY:

"No one comes to the Father but by me" (John 14:6)
This text has helped to create a world where adherents of one religion feel compelled to kill adherents of another.

ANTI-SEMITISM:

And the people answered, 'His blood be on us and on our children'" (Matt. 27:25)
No other verse of Holy Scripture has been responsible for so much violence and so much bloodshed.

SEXISM:
For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1Cor. 8-9)

The message of the Christian church was once that women are evil to their core and it was built on the story of Eve.

Grateful pushes his own religion but does not mention the evil in yours.

david f, "I have absolutely no argument with the fact that Muslims can have four wives. However, that does not mean that someone living in Australia can have four wives."

If you have supported same sex marriage why shouldn't grateful have his four wives? Individual rights and marriage as a recognition of love and commitment is as true for one as it is for the other.

Age of the person is another issue where some have sought relaxation based on lower ages for consent elsewhere. However in Australia there is relaxation of age for indigenous girls whether they like it or not, that is multiculturalism. Again, through multiculturalism policy grateful might feel he has more compelling reasons for numerous wives and underage ones at that than you might have for supporting same sex marriage, which is by coincidence abhorrent to grateful's beliefs in any event.

Dear DAvid F.,

As I've written many times in the past -
I don't pretend to have all the answers,
neither do I feel that what is right for
me is right for anyone else. I believe
in live and let live. I'm not looking
to converting anyone, and I certainly
don't have any sort of missionary
complex.

I used to think that I wasn't religious,
and perhaps I wasn't. I certainly didn't
like what organized religion had done to
the world. I still don't. However, I've
come to see that true religion is internal,
not external. The spirit within cannot be
blamed for the blasphemies carried out in its
name. What some have done in the name of
religion, projecting their neuroses, even
perpetrating evil on the world, to my mind,
doesn't make religion as a mystical
phenomenon invalid.

Dear cornflower,

Someone in Australia cannot have four wives because the law reflects the prevailing attitude in Australia. As far as I am concerned the law can be changed if enough people want it to be changed. Morality and law reflect the attitude of the community. That is the point I would like to make.

I certain would not object to anybody having four wives if there was no compulsion in the matter. My personal feelings reject compulsion.

Grateful and I differ in this matter. Of course polygamy like same sex marriage is a matter of acceptance. Neither is based on any absolute god-given morality.

AGIR: If you are saying Islam supports child abuse then you are wrong.

Furthermore, in a ‘primitive society’ (where there is no primary schools and children are tilling the soil by the time they are of age) brides could be very young. This does not amount to child abuse and has been the case irrespective of religion.

Why not ask the question: Is a child in Australia more likely to be abused in a Muslim household than the typical Australian household?

David f: << In your post you seem to want others to accept your religion.>>

I would like people to become informed about my religion.

David F said: <<What's right and wrong for you is not right and wrong for me. >>

This may be true on some issues and i suspect the main point of difference relates to balancing the rights of the individual with the needs of civil society: issues relating to how individuals should conduct themselves and how misconduct can affect the welfare of others (notably woman and children and the family) as well as undermine social structures.

On fundamental values such as racial equality, tolerance, human and animal rights, gender rights, the environment and so on you would find there is not much to argue about. In fact, your words reminded me of similar words in the Qur’aan (look up Chapter 109 AlKafiroon: http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/). You may be surprised how much there is in common, although the approach to social issues can be quite different.

salaam