Dear Steven

What Foxy said. I have already addressed your question and provided reasons for my opinion.

AJ Phillips - the irrepressible.

Thank you for your time and patience addressing posters such as MJPB. I tire quickly of his/her game of obfuscation. Once I have made a clear and succinct point, I see no reason to rehash. That many religious folk deliberately confuse fact with faith is another example of religious dishonesty.

Grateful

I appreciate your kind comments. I do try to be rational - perhaps not always successfully, although I find ignoring AGIR's posts helps me to remain mindful (in the Buddhist sense).

stevenlmeyer: << It is precisely because I fear the power of the CHRISTIAN churches that I think it important to combat any attempt to appease Islam. >>

I think Steven's being more than a little disingenuous here. It's a good point, but I doubt very much if concerns about Christian influence and power are the principal drivers of his Islamophobia.

Severin,
You are an inspiration.

Perhaps we should be focusing less on manifestations of bad character (which i think fundamentalism represents) and more on what makes for good character.

It would be nice to have a properly managed forum where we could share what we understand about 'good character' and how it is attained.

take care

Grateful

For once we are in accord. I have been following Muslim Village Forums for some years and I have urged people who want to observer Muslims "au natural" to do likewise. I am a member of a discussion group that analyses MV threads of interest.

For other posters here is a quick definition of MV:

IT IS BOAZY ON STEROIDS

Here is a link to a recent thread:

http://muslimvillage.com/forums/topic/59530-ohio-jesus-statue-burned-to-ground-by-lightning/

A statue of Jesus in Ohio was struck by lightning and burned to the ground. A regular poster, Mango, has this to say (in post #3):

"SubhanAllah... bit hard for them to take a hint... Bible: Job 36:32 He fills his hands with lightning and commands it to strike its mark.

[…]

(Quran 24:46)

We have indeed sent down signs that make things manifest: and Allah guides whom He wills to a way that is straight.

What follows is a discussion on whether this is a sign from God. A kafir poster, Event Horizon, tries to introduce some scientific sense into the discussion. (#6) but mango is having none of it. It's all a sign from "Allah".

Event Horizon then links to a story describing how children five decorating a cross in Mexico were killed in a lightning strike.(#10)

Here is a quote from Mango's response (#11)

"... why would I be excited at the death of children decorating a cross? According to Islam, they are under or bordering the age of puberty, their death- at least most certainly for those under the age of puberty- from such an incident constitutes grounds for them to enter Heaven, regardless of what they were doing or their religious affiliation at that age. So on that level alhamdulilah Praise be to God. Because entering Heaven is something all theists want and work for."

On the whole MV posters like mango are great contributors to what Dr. Johnson called the "public stock of harmless pleasure."

On the whole MV posters like mango are great contributors to what Dr. Johnson called the "public stock of harmless pleasure."

Another worthy contributor to that stock of harmless public pleasure is a poster describing himself as "FatBoyMuslim" (FatHeadMuslim is a better description).

Here is FatBoyMuslim on the question of whether kafirs can get into heaven. A kafir poster called "Kristin" quotes some Muslim scholars saying it's possible.

http://muslimvillage.com/forums/topic/58441-non-muslims-in-an-islamic-afterlife/

But FatBoyMuslim is having none of it (post #2):

"here is no mercy for kafirs in the next life. they are doomed to burn the fire of hell for ever and ever. this is the promise of allah, not a shura decision by a bunch of muslim elders.
[…]
"a lot of kafirs who call themselves muslims and who do not wish to upset their kafir masters, quote that verse blatantly out of context to assure their masters of a free ticket to heaven."

One of the most bizarre recent threads is this one started by a poster who calls himself "greenie".

Free Will Vs Allah's Plan

http://muslimvillage.com/forums/topic/59466-free-will-vs-allahs-plan/page__st__30__p__894419__fromsearch__1&#entry894419

Here is FatBoyMuslim again:

your desire is also created by allaah. allaah is the creator of everything in the universe, tangible or abstract.

you cannot will without allaah's will.

But ye shall not will except as Allah wills,- the Cherisher of the Worlds.

[...]

He cannot be questioned for His acts, but they will be questioned (for theirs).

the root of such misguidance is anthropomorphism and applying analogies from creation to allaah

nonmuslims should firstly try to understand allaah's total ownership of everything and his divine attributes and that he has no partner or equal or superior. submitting to allaah's absolute supremacy over all creation (and everything other than him is creation) is islam.

In my wilder moments I wonder whether Muslim Village Forums was started by a Monty Python clone.

So Steven - how many discussion groups do you belong to that are devoted to analysing "threads of interest" on Christian forums?