I'm not talking, necessarily about military intervention, in the accepted sense. I'm saying that the military trade instructors have had the best acceptance in some very remote spots and really do a better job. I'm talking places like Hopevale, Napranum, Kowanyama, Doomadgee, right through North Queensland. Places like Mutitjulu, Armata, etc. in the Territory as well.

I have put a LOT of thought into this, the only real answer I can see is via the implementation of Federal Authority. The cleaning up of the disgraceful state of affairs involving communities and private contractors and the weeding out of the corrupt from the Councils.

A full-blown new broom approach, getting rid of the problems that have been there since day 1. Quite frankly, there is not an ounce of trust for the organs of the State/Territory Governments (I don't have any anymore either), so the Commonwealth is required.

The only way the Commonwealth can do so, is via the army and Federal Police. The army is there to deliver the work and training, the AFP is there to enforce the rule of law.

Provide the services that are needed, get rid of the people who aren't, work out what is needed and then deal with it. Quite simply, I don't see how anyone but the army could do it. The living is too rough for the average public servant, actually MOST public servants, the fact that the army is training to rebuild a Country might actually assist them in the process of fixing ours.

<< The only way the Commonwealth can do so, is via the army and Federal Police. The army is there to deliver the work and training, the AFP is there to enforce the rule of law. >>

Yeah, but there's the rub. While the army is respected in some places, in others soldiers have been less than virtuous - for generations. And police are police, Federal or otherwise.

Your intentions are obviously good, but I think your suggestions have about as much chance of success as the last/current "intervention".

On the other hand, I think that this is a perspicacious observation:

<< Unless we give the majority of inhabitants thereof some reason to respect and/or trust the State, we cannot expect anything to change. >>

From what I've observed, when the State does something tangible that directly benefits Indigenous people, the recipients are generally grateful and amenable. Sure, there are plenty who apparently abuse State largesse, but there are more every year who avail themselves of educational, training and employment opportunities.

I disagree with you that educational opportunities are confined to the more influential families in communities. From what I know from personal experience, more and more young Indigenous people from wider networks are availing themselves of opportunities as they are presented.

Until very recently, Indigenous people have had little incentive to identify with the Australian State that has always marginalised and inferiorised them. I think that education, and indeed health, are the domains through which Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island people will ultimately achieve equal status in mainstream Australian society.

With the greatest respect for your good intentions, Custard, I think that neither the Army nor the Federal Police will have much of a role in any effective redisposition of Indigenous people in Australian society.

Since 1788 we've sought ways to solve the aboriginal "problem". Until we realise that "WE" are the problem, the aboriginal communities will continue to suffer third world deprivation and continued cultural annihilation.

It's not the aboriginal people who must change - - - WE are the ones who must change! Anything less is a grossly paternalistic disrespect towards an entire culture.

We've attempted to culturally decimate an entire race of people, and for the most part we've succeeded quite well. We reward aboriginal people who are as much like us as possible, and the less they are like us the more they are punished.

I invite anyone to take a seat any night outside the Woolworths supermarket checkouts, in the Yeperenye shopping centre in Alice Springs. There you'll see before your eyes the results of our cultural intrusion and decimation of aboriginal culture. Virtually every night up till 10 o'clock closing you'll witness the following from a dispossessed people - - - - - assaults, extremely loud and aggressive abuse, constant screaming and yelling, extreme drunkenness , intimidation, theft (usually grog from the Woollies grog shop). Generally aboriginal upon aboriginal; very, very rarely aboriginal upon non aboriginal. They are drugged, drunk and dazed and violent. English is a second and sometimes third language. These people are "community" people. Their lives are TOTALLY dysfunctional. Many of them can barely stand upright, they carry physical injuries. They can barely walk from point A to point B without yelling and screaming at someone. Matters are made worse by the ever present security guards who physically intimidate them and sometimes assault them in efforts to move them on and away from nice shoppers like "US".

And guess what?

They are NOT to blame.

**WE** are to blame.

We have destroyed these people. We see the solution as them becomming more like us. Our values, our God, our ways of life, our culture. It's all about **OUR** domination of them.

It doesn't work.

It never has worked.

Until **WE** change towards them, their dispossession will continue.

They are NOT the problem, WE are!!

continued.......

.......... The same old paternalism continues, we consider that they are incapable of helping themselves and must receive **OUR** culture and **OUR** solutions. It always fails, and always will.

Within 200 years I predict the aboriginal people will have achieved their own nationhood. They will have their own autonomous, independent nation within the current borders of Australia; probably somewhere in the northern regions.

We stole their land from them. We hunted and murdered them. We decimated their cultures. They deserve that land back.

But not "given" back; they will **TAKE** it back (hopefully through legal process), and good on 'em! Currently they can't do that, it's impossible. In the future at some stage they WILL do it; and for the first time since the invasion of their land they will not be under our thumbs. And rightly so!

Don't be so damn silly benq, well within 200 years the islamic council which will be ruling Oz with a rods of iron, will have long since stopped any special recognition of, or assistance to aboriginals.

They will of course have been assisted in the gaining of power by many of the aboriginal community. This support will have been gained using the politics of envy.

However, once power had been secured, any special privileges had been removed, & aboriginals were required to obey instructions, like the rest of the greater comunity.

Two can play this silly game of prediction mate, or three, if you include those damn silly academics who prattle on about global warming.

If we want to help aboriginal comunities what we should do is get out of them, & keep the aboriginal industry out. They should be given exactly the same assistance that any other comunitie gets, & nothing else.

They are still growing into modern life. They are about where our people were a couple of hundred years ago, & need time to catch up. Considering where they have come from, they aren't doing too badly really. They will do this much more easily if left to do it in private, rather than in the media.

Hasbeen & benq,
I think even CJ Morgan would have to agree that we can't turn back the clock. What can be done however, is to acknolwledge that the past & present approach by either side is a monumental disaster. The blame game & guilt industry have served quite a few people on both sides very well indeed, but we have now reached a stage where people on both sides realise it is getting us nowhere fast.
I suggest a large piece of good land be set aside purely for those indigenous who believe their ancient ways served them better. They can live there totally independent. Those outsiders who alway state that we have taken away the indigenous' culture should support this. Those who do not wish to return to stone age can make a living like every other green, blue, white, black or whatever Australian resident.
Perhaps someone has a better idea, let's hear it, we need a solution.