Now come inde you must be as old as me that sure is.
However you have made a remark much funnier than that right here in this thread.
Had me grinning all day and singing under my breath.
The hoary old chestnut.
I am probably right Rudd will win wait for it.
Because voters are
SHEEP.
Chuckling right now.
Do you truly think like that? you are always right so others must be wrong?
SHEEP.
Goodonya bloke laughing is good for me.

*are miners more upset with unions being back on site than the tax?
can it be a chance?*

Nope Belly, not a chance in the world. This is about basic economics
and what drives investment.

But I'm fully aware that the economic arguments are well above
the heads of most people, so I'll put it to you in your language.

If the Govt decided that they would tax any overtime that you do
at the rate of 65% or two thirds, how much overtime would you
work? Or any of your mates work? If there was other work down
the road, that was not counted as overtime, would you think about
doing that instead, so only paying 33%? Or would you think about
not bothering with overtime and simply enjoy life a bit more?

That is the basic argument in your language.

But that is not why I am so pissed off, the fact that they are
economic idiots. That is just labour for you, although Keating had
more brains then that.

What pissed me off is that Rudd and Swan are standing up with
straight faces and telling straight lies, which are shown to
be straight lies, like the 38.5 million, or the 100 million claim,
or a heap of other claims. These are meant to be the leaders of
our country and they stand there openly dishonest. Where is
their integrity? Where is their basic honesty, for which any
schoolkid would be told off by its parents?.

As far as I'm concerned both Swan and Rudd should resign immediately
for that kind of dishonesty. Yet you don't say a word. Because
they are part of your tribe, never mind the lies, as long as they
win that will be ok. Belly I'd be surprised if you led such a
lowdown life in your private life, yet you fully accept it without
question from your leaders, by association.

If the Labour party has a bunch of liers at the top, get rid of
them and bring up some of the younger talent. The same should
apply to the Liberals

On your Original post Shadow Minister, I think it's clear that the Rudd Govt was naive to place such strident standards on it's own capacity to inform the taxpayer through advertising.

Howard spent mountains of taxpayers money on outright propaganda, and successfully maintained power that way.

In this game of chess with Miners and the Abbott Opposition, the Govt seems to have learnt that these people play dirty.They would unashamedly profess to control the agenda and effectively rule from the opposition benches by blockage and frustration, and currently have a $100m private war chest to spend on blowing the effect of a mining tax change out of all proportion to sway public opinion.

The Govt has had to move itself out of check, and really had no choice but to grant itself an exception in this case.

*and currently have a $100m private war chest to spend on blowing the effect of a mining tax change out of all proportion to sway public opinion.*

So where did you get that one from, Thinker 2? How do you know
its true?

Yabby it matters not what you think of me.
But it matters what I think of me,,,,to me.
In my workplace it is different I judge myself by one measure,what my members think of me.
I value truth, honesty, and believe my party ,any party, should seak constant improvement and govern in the best way they can.
True ,no government can please every one.
But mate it is true that the heat came into your posts AFTER the mining tax and ALL its side issues.
Rudd did not do his home work, floundering around trying not to be seen as backing down AGAIN he presented his case poorly.
BUT tax reform is long over due, IT IS TRUE miners are paying less than they once did.
True that some of them will pay more without complaint.
I stand against the bloody insulting view miners are not lieing here but Rudd and Swan are.
Mate one day that utter bull crap about wise men from the east will have to be addressed, it defames WA too.
Australia must address its long term future.
The crimson tax will be put in place, much work will be done but after it is used to better us Abbott,s successor will not complain.
Compare Abbott, look truly , he is unelectable his party driven by lies and you say Rudd lies?
Rubbery Kevin has both hurt himself by changing his mind and refusing to.
He however will get his second term without change no third.
Yabby I do not get paid overtime work an average of ten hours
and the figures you use are not honest ones.

*I stand against the bloody insulting view miners are not lieing here but Rudd and Swan are.*

In that case Belly, look at the evidence. The fact that the 38.5
million was decided on, long before the tax was even announced to
the public. So had nothing to do with being a response to some
miners, as claimed. It was going to happen all along.

Look at the 100 million claim. Where do the figures come from?
Channel 7 did an investigation. Somebody mentioned it in the
Australian. No evidence of it being so, just a claim. In fact
the Minerals Council says its around 20 million.

Look at the claim about decreasing income from mining. Where is
the data for it? It can't be produced, for they conveniently
had forgotten to include company taxes.

Its not just me who thinks this is a disgrace Belly, but major
business commentators like Alan Kohler and others.

In my opinion, if leaders of our Govt are being openly dishonest,
they should resign, replaced by people from their party who do
value honesty