http://www.smh.com.au/national/rudd-uturn-provokes-lib-sideswipe-20100528-wld9.html?autostart=1

"Upon winning the election, Mr Rudd honoured his promise that all taxpayer-funded campaigns costing over $250,000 would be vetted by the Auditor-General to ensure they were apolitical.

The federal government has given itself the green light to spend $38.5 million of taxpayers' money on political advertisements for its mining tax,,,,,"

Not has Labor spectacularly failed to deliver on any of its performance based promises, it continually reneges on all promises that it could keep defining them as "non core" promises.

I am beginning to wonder if there are any core promises at all that Rudd will bother to keep?

How can you tell when Rudd is lying? - When he is awake.

Looks like he is infected by the Howard non_core promises bug.
But then again it may be the Tony Abbott one.
Was it scripted or spoken on the run?
If Kev told as big a lie as the miners have on this issue he should be be smacked.
Next term you must do better Kev.

It pales by comparison with Howard's spending on government advertising - remember all those Work Choices Ads and brochures sent to each Australian home.

Swan requested an exemption on this according to one news report because the public has asked for more information claiming there is mixed messages coming from both sides of the tax debate and the "public is hungry for information".

The mining companies have done their best to create a hysteria over the tax. This is one way of informing the public - so it seems.

I am not sure if it was necessary or not but at least there is some oversight on government advertising unlike the last government's largesse to its own advertising budget.

I do wonder if the message is already getting out, most people I speak to support a higher tax on mining companies of some sort to adequately pay for the raw materials. And I wonder if there is already enough media doorstops, debates, interviews and articles that adequately inform those that care to be.

*The mining companies have done their best to create a hysteria over the tax*

Rubbish. The mining companies can use a calculater and are pointing
out the bleeding obvious. Those who work for Govt don't need to
use a calculator, for when they are short of funds, they just tax
more, then as usual piss it up against proverbial walls. My
accountant used to work and live in Canbbera, he tells me they
have lost all touch with the real world there, for many are third
and fourth generation Govt workers.

Fact is that there are a whole stack of exploration companies,
who have relied on investors prepared to take a risk, for their
funding. Given that its now not worth taking that risk anymore,
for if they find something, the Govt wants most of it. Those
investors will simply turn to other industries or offshore, where
Govts are more reliable then in our banana republic.

Peter Costello is correct on this one. Once taxation goes past
50%, its more like robbery and no longer a fair thing. Miners
and investors too, have a sense of justice.

How much are you Pelican, prepared to risk, of your hard earned
savings, on mining exploration, where you could lose the lot?

I betcha nothing, 0, but if others do and a few make a profit,
you want to grab two thirds of it. Its unethical!

It pales by comparison with Howard's spending on government advertising - remember all those Work Choices Ads and brochures sent to each Australian home.
Pelican,
They were justified to counter the senseless left's relentless brainwashing of those who want benefits but are unwilling to risk effort.
Since you're on the subject of mismanagement & gross waste look at the present situation.

The Coalition government was not the first and only government to spend state money on "information campaigns" to counter "political mis information."

However, was Kevin Rudd that took the political moral high ground and condemned the abuse of taxpayers' money by the Howard government - as "a sick cancer" and promised to reform this process.

He stuck to this promise while it was convenient and ditched it the first time it wasn't (i.e. the next election) as with a plethora of other inconvenient promises.

Spending state money on political self promotion makes Rudd just as guilty as Howard, except following his criticisms and promises not to do so makes him also a hypocrite and a liar.

Come are we not laughing at the conservative spin here?
ROF laughing?
Shadow Minister now clutches on both hands to the claim his government was not the first to do this.
An admition Rudd too was not the first.
The intense anti Rudd campaign has some things in it I agree with, just maybe the mans ego blind sided him, too often.
He should have gone for DD election and fought for ETS.
He should have sold Peter Garret to a traveling Circus.
Or gone for a Sunday drive and dumped him by the roadside.
He should have taken Japan and its whaling to court 12 months ago.
BUT look please at what he faces.
Look closely at Abbott.
See the policy's Rudd, opposed to Abbott.
If we claim any understanding of how people vote why they vote, know this against Abbott Rudd is so far in front no doubt at all exists an ALP second term is assured.
Individual, Shadow Minister team Abbott, can I ever expect to see you in print telling the weaknesses of your mob?
GLASS houses know that one?
Are you pleased at the maternity windfall for high income earners?
Do you think returning to Howard Pacific solution is good for our country's international look?
Is Abbott's admission he lies ok with you?
Is it ok mad Julie Bishop is more disliked internally than externally?

Belly:"Next term you must do better Kev."

Why not actually try to do OK this term? Does every Prime Mi9niater get one term to act like a complete hypocrite and incompetent before he has to "do better"? At least Abbott is honest enough to acknowledge that sometimes things are said in the heat of the moment that we wouldn't like to live with. Rudd just tells lies and pretends they're the truth.

Personally, I don't like Abbott, but if Rudd gets another term, I reckon my business won't survive it.

BELLY and SHADOWMINISTER....

They are ALLLLL *scumbags* people... the only (thus far) honest pollies, it would seem.. are Family First :) ooh.. doncha love that.

But..give em a bit of power..and time would tell.

SOLUTION.. it is not either of the major parties..they are only using the right words for their mass constituencies for ONE reason..and that is 'MONEY MONEY MONEY and (oh..2 words) POWER POWER POWER.

Why do they want 'POWER' ?:) so they can get more MONEY!
What do they do with MONEY? spend it to get more POWER!

The solution is INDEPENDANTS to keep those other bastards REALLY honest.

Australia..I can now reveal :) I have tracked down some of the insidious networks of capitaltists masquerading as LABOR people.. those whose political lives depend on 'MASS' appeal to the working class, which means 'Broad sloguns'.. LIKE.

"Better Health"
"More Jobs"
"More services"
"Improved this"
"Improved that"

When they REALLY mean.. "Keep me in power so my corporate/political network can continue bleeding the taxpayer for every capitalist cent I can bleed it for.

For those interested.. see if you can see a *connection* between ME (My nick and nicks status) and 'Smart Meters' ...it's a most interesting journey.

GOLDMAN SACHS
AL GORE
DAVID BLOOD (Generation Invesemtent Management/CCX)
CAMERON O'RIELLY
DEMOCTRATIC PARTY
LABOR PARTY
CHICAGO CLIMATE EXCHANGE (CCX)
CLIMATE EXHANGE (just bought out CCX)
US DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
LANDIS and GYR
BOB CARR
ENVEX
PETER BATCHELOR (Energy Minister)

Now this would be verrrrrry INteresting :)

and you skeptics think I came here to whack mozzies ? :) joke time extrordinaire.

Not just to whack mozzies, Boaz. You appear to have extended your repertoire in your absence to include some amorphous conspiracy theory about which you keep on making dire hints, but provide absolutely no detail.

I can't wait for when you do. Loopy conspiracy theories are very entertaining.

Boazy do you think that post looks ok?
Caps screaming and such.
Has anyone else noticed the feminine hands on hip type of speech?
Face it anti Rudd is home in the stable, not bravado just understanding he is by far the better choice.

CJ I don't think we will get anything more than just hints. It is like creating smoke without any fire, just putting out the idea of conspiracy rather than actually providing evidence.

Yabby
I am not arguing that mining companies conduct business at a loss. We are talking about a tax on profits not on turnover. Investment money is safe. Some smaller mining companies will actually pay less. Mr Abbott has also proposed a higher corporate tax to fund a very generous paternal leave scheme.

I don't believe that every mining opportunity or discovery in Australia should be exploited for a buck otherwise we would end up with no arable farming land whatsover, irrepairable landscapes and a damaged water table as is being risked on the Liverpool Plains.

We do need some mining but we should not sell the primary materials for a pittance. That is my position. Having a go at public servants in Canberra is a misdirection.

Belly,

Good to see you admit that Rudd lied. (Rudd was not the first). Swan's defense now is that they won't spend quite as much as the coalition as they only spent $200m of tax payers' money in the first 2 years.

When Joe Blogs on the street is found to have been with a prostitute, he is maybe given a moral finger wagging, when some one like Jimmy Swaggart, (the internationally famous fire and brimstone baptist preacher) is caught it destroys his career simply because nobody believes a hypocrite and liar.

Rudd now has his pants around his ankles. I wonder what he will promise next and who would be deluded enough to believe him.

Belly ..sorry if the caps suggested shouting... bad me. I was just trying to highlight.. my mistake.

Pelly,- hints are all we need at this point. The big picture is quite hard to get one's head around.. specially without diagrams...but trust me..it is coming.

It is not a 'conspiracy' theory it is a network of ideological fact.
It applies differently to both sides of politics, but the side I am focusing on at this state is the ALP/Democrat/Greens/Soros/Strong/Gore connection.

I am simply going to establish that in politics, you never get what the parties promise.. I am going to rip the lid of some of those networks, and lay them bare and naked for all to see.

There are 2 levels to this.

Level 1 *make money/gain power*
Level 2 *Use that power to promote an ideological position*

The 2nd is far more dangerous than the first.
They both feed off each other.

Anyone stupid enough to vote for either major party deserves all the dissappointment they get..and the Greens are worse than the big network....as they are more ideologically driven, but will happily use the funds provided by the uber capitalists like Bob Brown letting Trickie Dickie pay his court costs in his lawsuit of Tasmania Forest products.

Boazy all noted join arjay in the corner.
Shadow Minister well you fit the bill.
Could be any one of Abbott's team, but are lies and innuendo going to be enough?
No sorry not even close Rudd's second term is assured two to pick from and the conservative rocking horse is unlikely to pass Rudd's old Grey mare.

In the corner ? u mean...timeout ? :)

awwwww *pout*

Seriously Belly.. you don't REALLY have 'faith' in any party (or party identity) do you ?

I don't and won't. Not even FF

<< Greens' popularity soars to record high

Support for the Australian Greens has surged to a record high as voters turn away from the major parties.

The latest Newspoll shows the Greens have jumped six points in six weeks to score 16 per cent support. >>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/31/2914530.htm

Be afraid, Boazy. Be very afraid :)

Oh NO! It's dem darned Green Capitalists again Wilbur. I'm gonna get me some of dem global warmers to keep me feet dry.

Boazy come on... Bob Brown a capitalist. In a free society Dickie can pay the legal costs of whomever he wants - the whole case was overturned on a technicality thanks to the Howard/Lennon governments. Is freedom of speech and action a one way street for you?

"Bob won his original court case to stop Forestry Tasmania logging the magnificent Wielangta forest, but the win was overturned on a
technicality by the full bench of the Federal Court after the Howard Government joined forces with the Lennon Government to change the law.

Forestry Tasmania wrote a letter threatening to bankrupt Bob if he does not pay their court costs by June 29. That would disqualify him from the Senate."

From: http://www.on-trial.info/

Settle down there CJ, those votes aren't in the box, yet mate.

The lib democrats in the UK were polling very high figures before the election, they were going to be the new wave, then lost 2 seats on the day.

Many is the slip between the door & the voting booth. So many, who plan to change their vote of ages, turn to water, when it comes to the act of putting marks on that little piece of paper.

It will be interesting, at least for a week or two. So many labor voters have woken up to what a dud Rudd is, but can't think of voting liberal, are turning to green. How many will vote that way when it comes to the acid test?

Just see Rudd replaced with the drovers dog, & much of that new green support will slip away, without a trace.

Sometimes "what if" can be fun.

Shadow Minister is taking the "high moral ground" regarding Labor's broken promises.

Others take the "high moral ground" regarding The Coalition's broken promises.

With such high morality here why do you guys argue, put down others, always look for political "spin" in your political posts and generally try to represent other political views as inferior to your own?

Oh well, keep up the - - - -

spin

spin

spin

spin

spin

spin etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Benq, I never claimed the moral high ground. Labor did, and ditched it at the first opportunity.

Belly,

I am not actually in favour of Abbott as PM as I think the position requires a steadier hand.

However, Rudd is a political street fighter, and Turnbull was being badly beaten. Abbott is a pit bull and as such has quickly and efficiently shredded KR and Labor such that KR is beginning to be loathed even within labor ranks.

However, due to his abrasive style much of the benefit has gone to the greens, and a change of leadership to calmer personality in a few months would do the liberals the world of good while labor continues to wallow.

I rest my case on that reply alone.

Point proven!

Not that it matters.

Ok guys, keep up the - - - -

spin

spin

spin

spin

spin etc etc etc etc etc.

shadow minister sorry but you lack basic understanding of politics.
More evidence you may well be a shadow minister.
Abbott never laid a glove on Rudd, Kev did that him serf an own goal.
Yet look closely at the polling.
Surely you see rabbott is not going to win?
Rudd will and just maybe control his need to be loved next term.
The next Liberal lead government will not come under the team that dumped Turnbull.
Believe me the party is a witch's cauldron brewing away but post election loss?
Watch this space but do not fall into the trap of thinking rabbott will EVER lead this country.

but do not fall into the trap of thinking rabbott will EVER lead this country.
Belly,
Sadly you'll be proven right. There are just too many sheep out there not minding to be fleeced !

*The latest Newspoll shows the Greens have jumped six points in six weeks to score 16 per cent support.*

Sheesh, they will be holding hands in parliament and singing
Kumbayah :)

Sadly, I haven't yet met a single green voter who has an economic
bone in their body. They simply don't understand the subject.

They do Yabby, they just don't share your views.

I suspect Bob Brown, Christine Milne etal know something about economics - even more than you.

You would be hard pushed to find two qualified economists who agree - it not a science and depends very much on your social and political outlook.

*it not a science and depends very much on your social and political outlook.*

Nope Pelican, the numbers and reality have to stack up. Feelgood
is not going to do it for you, although I know that you try really
hard :) Even those working in Canberra should know that there is
no magic fairy that creates wealth, for all of you to splurge on.

Browne and Milne know sweet FA about economics.

Belly, mate. Common, time to fezz up. Now it turns out that the
38.5 million $ for advertising was planned all along, it had
little to do with those "naughty miners". Pelican fell for
that one too, sheesh, so gullible, some of these people.

Now fezz up, your mob are a bunch of crooks, with Swan leading
the way.

It's a weird, weird mob alright. The hangers on vs the dreamers vs the performers. Australia is again so broke that we really should not experiment with hare brained schemes. Let's face it. The Coalition has proven that it can create a surplus, the Alp has proven that it is incapable. So what for crying out loud makes so many out there still support the ALP ? It really is beyond any reasoning. Are white Australians becoming genetically impervious to reason ? It certainly appears that way. Can anyone in his/her right mind please explain what's so competent about running an economy on credit ? The ALP has literally created a Harvey Norman economy, blow it all, create some more unaffordable schemes & don't pay anything for 12 months. Well, at least Qld Health appears to be running like that. What I don't get is, that Labor was born of the need to do something for workers. ALP is merely is doing exactly the opposite. A kind of reverse Robin Hood, fleecing the producers of common wealth & giving generously to maggot bureaucrats. Bob Hawke's clever Country vision never got to see the light of day.

Individual wrote, "The coalition has proven that it can create a surplus".

What you "conveniently" leave out is that the surplus was created during the biggest financial boom in Australia's history, which was a result of enormously high mineral prices paid by the world for our minerals. Without the gigantic mining boom and high mineral prices, Australia would have struggled.

That surplus was NOT the result of any particular talent or genius from Mr Costello or the coalition. An outback dunny man from the back of Bourke could have produced a surplus during this period, when Australia rode off the back of enormous, record price rises for our minerals.

Long time ago but after I left the dungarees and ex army boots and came to work in Sydney.
Adopted the skin tight pegged jeans, pointy toed shoes and the brill creamed hair I used to sing.
In talent quests and such.
I have started again, the conservative view Labor is dead first bought me back to an old time favorite.
every time I want you all I have to do is dream, gee humming it now.
individual bought it on and yabby?
well I like the bloke but he is a bit infected with that wise man from the east syndrome of late.
RABBOTT will never lead us.
Rudd will be returned.
greens now will increase senate seats and may have the balance, blame Rudd.
had he had the guts to call a DD election after Christmas he would have clearly won very well.
Australia on polling day will see a man more dislike than like more distrust than trust gasping out fears leading a coalition to a defeat even they know they are no chance.

benq,

I am one of the most unskilled when it comes to matters of finance so I do feel somewhat hypocritical when I criticise the ALP for being the same.
I am however, quite certain that the conservatives are better in running the country than the socialists. How can I make such a statement ? Well, I have lived through 4 ALP & 2 LIB Governments. Each ALP Govt has inherited a surplus, none of the LIB Governments had that priviledge. So, why is that ? You say Australia's minerals on the world market contributed to that. Have you ever looked at the global situation ? Whenever the global economy goes down it is because, yes you guessed it, the majority of the global economies at that stage are managed by socialist Govts. You see, I'm not saying that it it just Australia that is affected by the Govt. in power. It's a global thing. Global socialists =economy downhill, global conservatives=economy improving.
So far as Australia's economic recovery is concerned it was & still is due to the GST. Recall how the socialists condemned the GST ? The present ALP Govt. is harping on about tax reform. Well, now is their chance to prove how much better an economy we can have by removing the GST.

*That surplus was NOT the result of any particular talent or genius from Mr Costello or the coalition*

Not so Benq. As we can see right now, hand over the treasury to
people who don't know much about finance and already you have
a disaster. As Robert Gottliebsen points out, nobody in the Govt
is qualified.

If Swan had left things as they were, all would have been ok, but
labour can't do that. Right now they have a record of wasting
money, left, right and centre, plus inflaming the whole mining
sector, who are the people which made that wealth happen.

Swan just ain't no Costello, in economic terms he's a simpleton
and I'd hardly classify him as honest.

Costello managed to put money away for public servants pensions
in the Future Fund, all credit to him.

Come on Belly, now it seems that the claimed 100 million
was bunkum too. They are all going to land up with a nose
like Pinochio, the deputy PM is not far off :)

How can any of you mob lie straight in bed and claim that
our Govt is telling the truth?

Its a frigging joke, it really is.

Yabby come on bloke you have charged up from the first day of the mining tax issue.
ALL WA has.
Yep know about numbers currently 25 or is it 30% of AUSTRALIA'S exports come from WA.
The wise man from the east stuff is xenophobic and truly exists.
Even some migrants from here think that way.
Sit, you and individual, think on this, are miners more upset with unions being back on site than the tax?
can it be a chance?
Here I go again getting in trouble but I would be upset to have that fat braces wearing fool on a site I controlled.
In time rubbery Rudd will get a tax in place miners can live with, in time people with IQ,s over 60 will understand stock exchange falls are as a result of other things.
Abbott could not win a raffle if he bought every ticket.
Rubbery Rudd gets a second chance I think he will learn and just maybe let the brains in our party breath.
I fear he may have Bill Shorten locked In a cellar at the lodge, Lindsy Tanner Kev is worth listening to.

brains in our party,
Belly,
have a read of this;
One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead boys got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot each other,
One was blind and the other couldn't see,
So they chose a dummy for a referee.
A blind man went to see fair play,
A dumb man went to shout "hooray!"
A paralysed donkey passing by,
Kicked the blind man in the eye,
Knocked him through a nine inch wall,
Into a dry ditch and drowned them all,
A deaf policeman heard the noise,
And came to arrest the two dead boys,
If you don't believe this story’s true,
Ask the blind man; he saw it too!

Now come inde you must be as old as me that sure is.
However you have made a remark much funnier than that right here in this thread.
Had me grinning all day and singing under my breath.
The hoary old chestnut.
I am probably right Rudd will win wait for it.
Because voters are
SHEEP.
Chuckling right now.
Do you truly think like that? you are always right so others must be wrong?
SHEEP.
Goodonya bloke laughing is good for me.

*are miners more upset with unions being back on site than the tax?
can it be a chance?*

Nope Belly, not a chance in the world. This is about basic economics
and what drives investment.

But I'm fully aware that the economic arguments are well above
the heads of most people, so I'll put it to you in your language.

If the Govt decided that they would tax any overtime that you do
at the rate of 65% or two thirds, how much overtime would you
work? Or any of your mates work? If there was other work down
the road, that was not counted as overtime, would you think about
doing that instead, so only paying 33%? Or would you think about
not bothering with overtime and simply enjoy life a bit more?

That is the basic argument in your language.

But that is not why I am so pissed off, the fact that they are
economic idiots. That is just labour for you, although Keating had
more brains then that.

What pissed me off is that Rudd and Swan are standing up with
straight faces and telling straight lies, which are shown to
be straight lies, like the 38.5 million, or the 100 million claim,
or a heap of other claims. These are meant to be the leaders of
our country and they stand there openly dishonest. Where is
their integrity? Where is their basic honesty, for which any
schoolkid would be told off by its parents?.

As far as I'm concerned both Swan and Rudd should resign immediately
for that kind of dishonesty. Yet you don't say a word. Because
they are part of your tribe, never mind the lies, as long as they
win that will be ok. Belly I'd be surprised if you led such a
lowdown life in your private life, yet you fully accept it without
question from your leaders, by association.

If the Labour party has a bunch of liers at the top, get rid of
them and bring up some of the younger talent. The same should
apply to the Liberals

On your Original post Shadow Minister, I think it's clear that the Rudd Govt was naive to place such strident standards on it's own capacity to inform the taxpayer through advertising.

Howard spent mountains of taxpayers money on outright propaganda, and successfully maintained power that way.

In this game of chess with Miners and the Abbott Opposition, the Govt seems to have learnt that these people play dirty.They would unashamedly profess to control the agenda and effectively rule from the opposition benches by blockage and frustration, and currently have a $100m private war chest to spend on blowing the effect of a mining tax change out of all proportion to sway public opinion.

The Govt has had to move itself out of check, and really had no choice but to grant itself an exception in this case.

*and currently have a $100m private war chest to spend on blowing the effect of a mining tax change out of all proportion to sway public opinion.*

So where did you get that one from, Thinker 2? How do you know
its true?

Yabby it matters not what you think of me.
But it matters what I think of me,,,,to me.
In my workplace it is different I judge myself by one measure,what my members think of me.
I value truth, honesty, and believe my party ,any party, should seak constant improvement and govern in the best way they can.
True ,no government can please every one.
But mate it is true that the heat came into your posts AFTER the mining tax and ALL its side issues.
Rudd did not do his home work, floundering around trying not to be seen as backing down AGAIN he presented his case poorly.
BUT tax reform is long over due, IT IS TRUE miners are paying less than they once did.
True that some of them will pay more without complaint.
I stand against the bloody insulting view miners are not lieing here but Rudd and Swan are.
Mate one day that utter bull crap about wise men from the east will have to be addressed, it defames WA too.
Australia must address its long term future.
The crimson tax will be put in place, much work will be done but after it is used to better us Abbott,s successor will not complain.
Compare Abbott, look truly , he is unelectable his party driven by lies and you say Rudd lies?
Rubbery Kevin has both hurt himself by changing his mind and refusing to.
He however will get his second term without change no third.
Yabby I do not get paid overtime work an average of ten hours
and the figures you use are not honest ones.

*I stand against the bloody insulting view miners are not lieing here but Rudd and Swan are.*

In that case Belly, look at the evidence. The fact that the 38.5
million was decided on, long before the tax was even announced to
the public. So had nothing to do with being a response to some
miners, as claimed. It was going to happen all along.

Look at the 100 million claim. Where do the figures come from?
Channel 7 did an investigation. Somebody mentioned it in the
Australian. No evidence of it being so, just a claim. In fact
the Minerals Council says its around 20 million.

Look at the claim about decreasing income from mining. Where is
the data for it? It can't be produced, for they conveniently
had forgotten to include company taxes.

Its not just me who thinks this is a disgrace Belly, but major
business commentators like Alan Kohler and others.

In my opinion, if leaders of our Govt are being openly dishonest,
they should resign, replaced by people from their party who do
value honesty

All I see in this debate from the Anti labor is a business opportunity, selling either white horses , dodgy armour and copies of
Don Quixote (AKA Donald Quickfix) or for the really stressed out some Jeremiah Peabody's Polyunsaturated, quick dissolving, fast acting, pleasant tasting green and purple pills. Only $1.98 + GST and postage.
Apply here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQIfp1TAo2I&feature=PlayList&p=EDF4F76CA25193AF&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=52 :-)

Belly et al,

Rudd declared before parliament that the super tax would not discourage investment, nor depress the stock exchange, nor effect the superannuation portfolios of the nation. Subsequently I heard on the ABC radio that information came out that indicated that weeks before the announcement of the tax the Labor cabinet not only knew that the mining companies were likely to put up a fight and were preparing an advertising campaign, but that they were conversant with the possibility that this would adversely effect the share prices and future projects.

This also means that Kev intended to pick with the miners, thinking that a fight with the "fat cats" would take the focus off previous stuff ups and paint his cabinet as the merry men rather than the 3 stooges.

JP Morgan (US bank) has indicated that it will reviewing investments into Australian mining due to the lower returns. This has not escaped the other major lenders either. So either Kevin is telling a huge porky or he is incredibly stupid.

The Chinese are also furious having just invested, so the repercussions are far more widespread than just locally.

By failing to negotiate with the miners up front, and simply attempting a huge tax grab, he vastly underestimated the response, and is now in a fight he can neither back out of or win.

SM
And your point is? that the Labor party chose the wrong negotiating strategy....perhaps mis-read their bargaining power? Whoopee!

And let's guess Tony Abbott's strategy is a real winner for the *country*:
Abrogate control to the corporations...give them everything they want. Sounds .....well.....um...something to me.

The problem with a fixed philosophic negotiating position like the one you support.... is no plan 'B', certainly no recovery plan.

Why should corps give any ground when Tony has already waved the white flag for personal power.

Face it Shadow politicians are all a dubious lot.

Should be able to shed some light here.
Seems Abbott's claims are made on the run not scripted.
And if he wins government his promise to kill the tax is a non corr one.
In less than a decade other country's will impose higher tax's not unlike this and conservatives will retreat from positions they scream about now.
all this and Rudd will returned just maybe Abbott the RABBOTT should think about honesty before election funding?

Examinator,

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that Krudd has consistently lied about the tax and his motives and cannot be trusted.

Belly,
We cannot afford Labor. The nice fuzzy sentimentality has turned to Krudd.

*In less than a decade other country's will impose higher tax's not unlike this*

Good grief Belly, now your lot are being convinced that Kevie is
some kind of global visionary, ahead of his time! He didn't
do too well in Copenhagen.

Fact is that increasing resources royalties discussions have been
ongoing already, but in an intelligent fashion, by the people
who actually own them, the States.

Colin Barnett has been quietly and sensibly negotiating with BHP
and Rio for months, these are sensible discussions where a win-win
all round is the outcome. From July 1, they are going to pay
more iron ore royalties, the State benefits to the tune of 300m$,
on top of the billions companies already pay.

WA only has one problem. 90% of all this is ripped off by Canberra,
to subsidise you Eastern Staters.

The people running large mining companies like BHP are not little
kiddies, but once these 2 bob politicians get a bit of power for
a moment, it goes straight to some of their heads.

If the Govt had sat down from day 1 and discussed all this with
the mining industry, we would now not have a problem. But then
SM could well be correct. The 3 Stooges have made so many stuff
ups lately, they needed a cover and I think that they badly
miscalculated how many people actually realise, that their well being
depends on mining. Let them learn the hard way.

Wise men from the east on show again yabby.
remember from what place the investors and workers came, not WA.
SM hides his head under a cover and chants the on the run talk of his party but after Rudd is returned?
After the ten years and my predictions come true?
True that other country's say its out wealth we want a FAIR share no every thing should go to multi nationals .

Sheesh Belly, I'd like to know where your wise men are, for they
sure arn't in that mob which you so loyally support.

*no every thing should go to multi nationals *

43% tax is a fair share Belly. 50% maybe could be negotiated.
After that, you are committing robbery. You would not pay
it on your wages, if they tried to hit you with 65% tax.

But yabby you quote figures that are not true.
Your quoted tax is as phony as Abbott's on the run comments

My quoted tax comes from tax accountants who have worked it out
Belly. Your Wayne Goose is devious in that he quotes royalties
and leaves out company tax paid.

The Super profits tax is not a replacement for company tax, it
is in addition to company tax. Now I'm not sure how well you
know how to use a calulator, but you can even work it out for
yourself if you wish.