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The Forum > General Discussion > UK election...when trends are bucked.

UK election...when trends are bucked.

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Still stirring the pot, I see, Boaz.

But it's as important as ever that you pay attention to the facts. It was always your weakness, rushing into print before absorbing the detail necessary to support your knee-jerk prejudices

There's no place to hide, you know. All your previous incarnations are still here, to provide the necessary depth of understanding to your posts.

Which is why I laughed out loud when you wrote this:

>>Get over yourself on race Pericles there is much more to it than that.<<

I'm sure you said that with a straight face. maybe you even thought that it is fair comment. But do yourself a favour, and look at your reflection in the OLO mirror for a moment.

You started this thread with a faux-naif question about the UK election.

The intention - your intention - all along, was to highlight the impact that (you surmise) the BNP has had on the political scene over there. Despite the fact that you know nothing more about it than you read in the neo-fascist blogosphre - amply illustrated, by the way, by your choice of news source.

So here's the bottom line. You continue to pretend that you are "just observing interesting social trends", and I will continue to point out the error of your ways.

Does that work for you?

OK, here's today's starter.

You cite three problems in Barking that are "irrespective of race" - employment, housing and immigration.

If you then look at how those problems are characterized by the BNP, you will find that they use race to connect the dots.

"The party wants to make immigrants, and in particular Muslims, the scapegoats for everything – falling living and educational standards, rising crime, terrorist activities, even traffic congestion."

http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2010/04/bnp-manifesto-seeks-more-than-votes.html

Incidentally, the BNP share-of-vote in Barking declined by 2.1%, from 16.9% to 14.8%

That's actually a fall of 12.4% in their "share-of-vote".

Note also that the BNP had 339 candidates standing in 2010, as opposed to 117 in 2005.

That's 1,647 votes-per-candidate in 2005, and 1,663 votes-per-candidate in 2010.

Them's the facts. Enjoy.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 21 May 2010 9:04:35 AM
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Aah...Pericles..I see it now. Err..that you are looking at very unrerpresentative numbers.

Let's bullet point it.

-Labor believed it would lose the seat (to BNP). (Internal polling)
-HOPEnotHATE and LABOUR did a mammoth job in..
a) Scaring residents about BNP (demonizing them) with very graphpic posters of Griffin leading a triumphant procession of Nazi's with hitler in the background.
b) 100s of people pounding the streets to promote labour.
c) Drumming up 'large numbers' of voters to actually vote, who were told they and their children would be in deep poo if the BNP got in.. (methinks migrants)

In spite of ALL that.. the BNP vote went up by 30%ish... and you really think the -2.1 'share' of the turnout vote means anything other than the above ?

Talking elections (and the Quran) with you is like reading Dickens to a 2 yr old.

Putting all this together, we have an outcome which was very much against Labour's own polling prediction. However the increase in BNP vote was in keeping at least in part with their polling...though the scare campaign (putting electoral fraud aside for the moment) might have done part of the trick. I am very interested in locating people who

-had decided to vote BNP prior to the election...
-but who changed their mind on polling day..
-why they might have changed.

I'm sure the BNP is also very interested in that information too.

Question. If an indigenous party representing the interests and aspirations of black/Aboriginal Aussies emerged.. would you call them 'racist' ?
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Friday, 21 May 2010 5:08:57 PM
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I'm not surprised at the result, considering the massive media influence that's dragging all new governments back to the right.

It's no secret that Murdoch/Fox are vigourously against Obama, Rudd and Brown.

The creeping BNP influence has just captured disaffected voters who want to blame somebody for anything and everything. A bit like the "none-of-the-above One Nation fad that we had here.

Despite the gloss they really are an appalling pack of individuals who were upset about being "outed" when their membership lists were leaked.

Maybe one day soon they will put on their brown shirts have a "night of broken glass" by smashing foreign-owned shop windows.
Posted by rache, Saturday, 22 May 2010 1:14:43 AM
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Dear Rache...

by and large I tend to agree with you on what you said.. not all, but some.

With this I agree:

//The creeping BNP influence has just captured disaffected voters who want to blame somebody for anything and everything. A bit like the "none-of-the-above One Nation fad that we had here.//

Remember how One Nation was 'dissappeared' ? it basically happened when the Libs actually LISTENED and embraced quite a few of her policies (Mainly tough on immigration/assylum seekers) and suddenly the reason for people wandering from the major parties ceased to exist...

So...their support waned.

I am still very surprised by the HUGE labor vote in Barking when the people who are dissaffected are still dissaffected..downcast and have no logical reason to support Labor or Hodge (the cupboard capitalist, sex abuse coverup covergirl)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge#Child_abuse_controversy

and who have left the Tories with "Sorry there is no money left"

So.. this was no surprise to informed residents of Barking..they already knew Labour was not 'there' for them... the only thing they have going for the future is a huge urban re-development scheme which will create lots of construction jobs in the short term.. and as the flyer says:

//It will provide much needed space for small businesses, and aims to bring home the message to local residents and visitors that Barking and Dagenham is a place where businesses can start up and flourish. The centre will provide businesses with a range of facilities, services and support needed to boost their growth.//

The Problem here is that 48,000 of Barking residents were Ford Assembly Plant workers.. who are now unemployed.
They are factory workers..not rocket scientists or economic whizz kids.
My concern is that there is no 'originating' business there.. without manufacturing.. those 48,000 workers are to be blunt..screwed.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 22 May 2010 6:00:50 AM
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RACHE.. I'll stick with you for a bit.

Could you please describe your political position for the sake of reference and discussion ?

I've gained the impression you are a bit of a socialist and/or greeny..
and I'm not saying that just to criticize.. but to establish a working position for discussion. I do have some deep concerns about how workable ideologies are in practice in a changing global environment, but my focus is primarily on the Western countries (us) and in particular Barking/Dagenham as a good example which will be instructive for us all.

We could also choose a local example of FORD the broadmeadows and Geelong plants. But we see the 'future' more clearly in Barking.

My own position politically, is more centrist. I have socialist ideas and capitalist ones in my poor aging head.
Examples..I do believe in a 'Peoples' bank. or.. the equivalent thereof. I also believe in a strong public health system (backed up by private for those with $$$) and access to Dental help for the low income earners. I believe 'Corrections' is a state responsiblity, not private 'for profit'.

Thanx
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 22 May 2010 6:07:05 AM
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If it matters, I am somewhat slightly to the left of what used to be regarded as "centre". That centre has moved very much to the right over the last decade.

As Beazley senior said years ago, "the ALP used to be the cream of the working class but now it's the dregs of the middle class". Nevertheless I think they attempt to be fair to the wider population than the conservatives. Both are equally corrupt and act in their own self-interest although I think the Libs are worse in this regard. I made up my mind about them back in the Whitlam era and have seen no reason to change since - in fact they're even worse.

Typically the ALP get in, make a few much-needed changes and self destruct. The LNP get in, slowly dismantle some of the changes and usually get thrown out when the society they create gets too bad.

I'm not particularly a Greens supporter. They have good intentions but push it a bit too far at times.

Privatisation and Private/Public Partnerships were actually championed and pushed by the WTC years ago and governments are just falling in line globally. Nevertheless I have always thought it was a treacherous mistake on behalf of future generations. I'm afraid that electricity and water will be the next ones to go.
Posted by rache, Sunday, 23 May 2010 2:53:28 AM
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