The cheap toaster has saved people billions! How much do you think
those 10$ shirts would cost, if they were all made here? Where would
the labour come from to make them? We can't even find enough meat
workers now in WA, Aussies don't want those crappy jobs anymore,
they have things too easy.

Twenty five years ago, the average Aussie home was 13 squares,
now its 25 squares, air conditioned, with a flat screen tv.

Look at the social services available today, compared to then.
Pensions for unmarried mothers, councillors for every thing imaginable, etc. Supernnuation for every worker. The list goes
on.

Society is free to organise more trade places. I've asked a few
tradesmen why they don't take on an apprentice, many say its
simply not worth it. Many have a real attitude problem, don't
really want to work, cost a fair bit to employ and its simply not
worth it for them. That has nothing to do with globalisation.

The average wage today in real terms is higher then it was 25 years
ago. There are plenty of young blokes around who have all the
things you had and more, but they get off their butts and go to
where the work is, like in the mining areas.

Half of our problem today is that people are boxed up in Sydney,
Melbourne and the Gold Coast and if there is not the kind of work
they want within half an hour of their house, they are simply
not interested.

Expectations have risen dramatically, that is the real problem.

Thank you Prof-au for your interesting post and I totally agree that Mining Giants have taken a dreadful toll in third world countries and many of your other points. Some great examples of Big Money Spin at work.

Yabby you make a balanced observation when you speak of Palmer and Forrest, who are of course entitled to be considered Australian's as well, and I'm sure there is no black and white here, but shades of grey, some particular instances make good fodder for emotive thinking.

If they (Twiggy and Palmer) are interested in their country and if (in truth) they can afford to contribute more to their countries economy, then why would they think it objectionable that they should contribute more.

This whole more thing itself, is a red herring, because this whole Henry Tax change idea is not about quantity , so much as method. This is a change from the current royalty system to the "tax on profits system" as I understand it.

I have already said that under this new tax regime" if the miners make more money we do too, isn't that good.

What is wrong with that ?, even if your politically right of Ghengis Khan.

For the Govt and Opposition it now seems to be an argument about just how much tax that miners actually do pay. Abbott effectively declaring today that miners pay too much tax.

I think on this occasion everyone should take a deep breath, and not acquiesce to predictions of worst case scenario's by vested interests and negotiate.

It's in our best interests

Well what do you know, people should negotiate, thinker tells us.

That is of course what that idiot Rudd should have done, BEFORE he anounced his ripp off of the mining industry. He should have done that quietly, & had agreement, with the miners, before shooting his fool mouth. The grass hopper man had landed, & another catastrophe was in train.

The miners know they have had a good run, & would have come to the party. After being called all sorts of names by our special dill, they may now be a bit harder to work with.

Next we have the sight of Ruddy, a multi millionaire shooting off his mouth, exploiting the politics of envy, with the usual camp followers cheering him on. IT's hard not to be disgusted.

Thinker

If we make mroe money form miners nodpby will cmapin/

Why don't you start a movement to demand the receipts go to a sovereign wealth fund that governemnt gcasnnnot help thesmlves to. A real transfer of wealth to the people and to future generations.

I guarantee you they will drop the tax like a hot potatoe becasue transfering wealth to ordinary Australians is not their agenda and is not going to happen.

However we have the right to demand that money be preserved as it is in other nations for the people, not for a plundering government.

*they can afford to contribute more to their countries economy, then why would they think it objectionable that they should contribute more.*

Thinker 2, that is exactly what miners have been doing with their
profits! Given the growth in demand from China, India etc, they
have been reinvesting nearly all profits back into expanding
production, to cope with increased demand, contributing to the
economy in terms of exports created, jobs created, taxes paid.

But to develop at iron ore mine, plus build a railway hundreds of
km long to get the stuff to the port, plus to build the port,
takes billions. If a bloke like Twiggy can't use profits to do it,
what do you expect him to do?

Mining is not like Mrs Rudd did, ie open an office and shuffle a
few papers, make some phone calls etc. One single Haulpack truck
alone, costs many millions of $.

*This is a change from the current royalty system to the "tax on profits system" as I understand it.*

Its a grab by Canberra for more money. Royalties belong to the
States, as minerals belong to the States, not Canberra. Or does
our constitution not matter anymore?

Miners don't have a problem with paying their fare share, but as
Peter Costello points out, when Govts want more then 50%, people
get pissed off and I don't blame them. Its a question of fairness
here. You are free to benefit form mining at any time, by making
a few clicks online and buying some BHP shares. They will even
send you regular reports, so you start to understand what
mining is all about and how it functions and why.

As is being pointed out, negotiation should have taken place months
ago, not this gun to everyone's head by the Govt, already including
royalties in the budget. Arrogant sods.

Spending money on your own requirements e.g. railways for iron ore transport etc is not the same thing as spending money on essential services infrastructure etc Yabby.

It's good that jobs were created but when iron ore is gone, all that will be left is a railway to nowhere and all the spin off businesses along the way will be gone as well as the jobs, and Multinational Miners will ultimately become fair weather friends.

Whilst the Rudd policy release strategy may be blunt, perhaps the Mining Lobby would have been just as loud in it's dissent, no matter what they did.

As well Yabby there is no flowery history of benevolent behaviour from M.M.Corps that I can recall. I wish there was but I agree with you, that that does not mean that there are no good people in the Mining Industry. No doubt there are.

I still fail to see how a tax on Super profits means 50 % or more tax across the entire cost of tax for Miners, and have to agree with Costello who stated the obvious but I'm not sure Costello's assumption applies in this case.

And finally Yabby I said " if (in truth) " they can afford to pay more why would they mind paying.Your excerpt misrepresented my position.

My question now is "can they or can't they afford it".

Both sides of politics think this relevant because they currently scramble to quantify this for us, and probably this is now the ultimate question that will decide the fate of this tax proposal.