George,

I am amazed that Dawkins includes those comments. The analogy with the Salem witch-hunts is a good one. I personally wouldn’t leap to the defence of a paedophile but he otherwise makes some good points.

" The Roman Catholic Church has borne a heavy share of such retrospective opprobrium. For all sorts of reasons I dislike the Roman Catholic Church. But I dislike unfairness even more, and I can’t help wondering whether this one institution has been unfairly demonized over the issue …”

The less than 2% thing that you mentioned in another post seems typical of what has been uncovered. Clearly an institution that teaches morals is vulnerable for criticism of the immoral conduct of certain members and rightly so. However it is naïve to think that any institution can completely avoid such problems and the lower than general population rates should be taken into account in the criticism.

More importantly it is reprehensible that Bishops failed to take action and they deserve due condemnation even if it was the norm at the time as they were duty bound to be more morally proactive then others. Comparison of rates of inaction between them and other organizations is difficult but presumably the rates would be commensurate with the rates of the offenders they failed to hand over to authorities and thus also lower than other organizations of the time. Condemning they and their successors now who have demonstrated more proactivity than other organizations in the present should have a reasonable limit. While many would like to keep their fingers firmly inserted in their ears and accept only sensationalized media misrepresentations it is always good to discover those (eg. Dawkins)who are not Catholic and oppose Catholicism but are nevertheless willing to identirfy something clearly unfair to the point of a witch hunt.

CONT

“We should be aware of the remarkable power of the mind to concoct false memories, especially when abetted by unscrupulous therapists and mercenary lawyers. The psychologist Elizabeth Loftus has shown great courage, in the face of spiteful vested interests, in demonstrating how easy it is for people to concoct memories that are entirely false but which seem, to the victim, every bit as real as true memories. This is so counter-intuitive that juries are easily swayed by sincere but false testimony from witnesses."

I would never raise this issue as it could easily lead to an incorrect assumption (real or disingenuous) that I don’t believe that due recognition should be given to genuine victims. However now that it is on the table it has always niggled at the back of my mind that many of the worst cases of paedophile priests involved primarily victims who ‘forgot’ about the crimes and only ‘remembered’ after hearing media reports or undergoing recovered memory therapy. Recovered memory therapy appears to be at a minimum controversial and concocted memories have been shown to be implantable but for Catholic priests the accuracy is always assumed and the perpetrators identified by the memories are behind bars and their crimes given phenomenal publicity. Without wanting to distract from a real problem I simply note that that has niggled at me.

mjpb,

The issue of "recovered memories" is red herring. Virtually none of the reported cases involve this technique, rather what is happening, is that the victims felt unable to report the abuse through shame and self loathing. The attitudes of society have changed enabling them to come forward without suffering the consequences they would have previously.

Foxy... I am disappointed, and I 'sort of' guessed you were not really apologising but still thought it worth a try.

I thought you might even see the humour therein.

Never mind.

If it's all the same to you, I am not sure Cornflower and Severin, myself and George, or 'others' could pass off our pointed comments, jibes when required, factual observations, and mere unsolicited opinions in quite the same vein as Toad and Ratty, or Christopher Robin, although our content may be no better than a bad fairy tale on a Thursday arvo.

As for Frank's contribution, I rather appreciate the cut-through clarity of such plain speakers myself.

If only Rudd and others could do so well and say what they really mean, we'd all be better off.

I drew the line at reading Roald Dahl to my children, and left that stuff to my wife, who didn't seem to mind his style.

I did 'other' books, including WITW.

Our poor 16 year old has only just lost the WITW curtains from his bedroom, a great aide to the story when it was time to go to sleep.... with Toad's caravan and horse only feet away, and Ratty still rowing his boat, endlessly, from drape to drape, over many, many years.

You might do well in The Greens though, since they seem to have very 'Willows' type members, and I am sure your local branch would elevate you to 'leadership' status, not that they have 'leaders', far too heirarchical for them, on the strength of a policy writ in poetry.... although maybe not in the Dennis Kevins style of 'worker prose'.... too much like Franks effort.

Part 2

Still, I look forward to a 'rollicking good yarn' from you, perhaps in the Cap'n W. E. Johns style, on the topic of 'Should the Pope be put to sleep', or whatever this thread has degenerated into.

I look forward to reading Algy and Ginger's parts in the tale of 'How Biggles tackled the Papal Predicament'.

Perhaps Biggles could be had landing his purple DH Dragon Rapide in St. Marks Square, secretly, at night, but on a full moon so he could see the cobblestones properly, and over the heads of the drug induced Swiss Guard, most of whom had sneaked off to a local gay bar for a night on 'the drugs' and were just repositioning themselves in their nooks and crannies in case the Pope opened his windows to let some air into the overly heated bedroom and noticed his 'boys' were missing?

What was Bigglesworth doing in St. Marks?

He was about to kidnap the man, Mossad style, and take him to The Hague, to be prosecuted by QC Lord Geoffrey Robertson DCM and Bar (public) on the strength of Prof. Dawko's citizens assault on The Good Man.

Sadly, as the need for Sopworth Camel air-aces had waned, post 1919, Bigglesworth found he had to adapt a little, so he became a bounty hunter.

Can you build on that lot Foxy?

The crocodile has landed in Malta.

Victims of sexual abuse by paedophiles in priestly disguises have been crying for much, much longer and the pope's belated tears wont put an end to that,I'm sorry to say. Some have commited suicide, others will continue to suffer nightmares and depression after that last tear drop evaporates.

One old dear said, "It is so sad tosee the poor dear actually crying. He is so sorry and ashamed."
She stopped short of saying that now he wont tolerate cover-ups and child rape any longer.That would really piss off the pro-pope offenders wont it. They depend on him so much.

socratease