Dear TBC,

Well, as Examinator would say -
It's time for me to go and sit in the naughty corner
wearing the dunces hat!
I've been rightly admonished.

Seriously though TBC - you're right of course.
I shouldn't have tried to lighten up a subject
as serious as this thread. And my giving children's
books as an example didn't help matters either.
However, it has shown me a different side to you
which I'm pleased to have learned. Children who
aren't told stories and who aren't read to will have
few reasons for wanting to learn to read. I'm glad
that yours were read to. I can just imagine you as
a child:

"This is young TBC
Who lives in Australia,
With his toys ,and his pets
And his paraphernalia."

Anway back to the subject of this thread.

Of course the Catholic Church must create structures
that assure prompt reporting, a zero-tolerance policy,
and quick action. The sexual abuse of children is
horrendous and intolerable and the failure of the Church
to deal with it effectively has done immeasurable damage
to victims. There's no doubt that the clerical profession
has taken a severe battering and the respect for the
priesthood is, understandably, at an all-time low.
The Pope needs to provide the leadership so that trust
can be restored. This is a problem that isn't going to
go away. And a do-nothing policy won't achieve anything
positive. Action is required.

Hey Foxy,

"There's no doubt that the clerical profession
has taken a severe battering and the respect for the
priesthood is, understandably, at an all-time low."

No question at all.

"The Pope needs to provide the leadership so that trust
can be restored. This is a problem that isn't going to
go away. And a do-nothing policy won't achieve anything
positive. Action is required."

My attention has previously been drawn to a report that stated:

"Pope Benedict has repeatedly apologized for the shame of the sexual abuse of children in various venues and to a worldwide audience. This has never happened before. He has met with victims. He has reigned in entire conferences of bishops on this matter, the Catholic Bishops of Ireland being the most recent. He has been most reactive and proactive of any international church official in history with regard to the scourge of clergy sexual abuse of minors. Instead of blaming him for inaction on these matters, he has truly been a strong and effective leader on these issues."

http://www.cultureandmediainstitute.org/articles/2010/20100407112508.aspx

and

http://catholicanchor.org/wordpress/?p=601

Also, you quoted from Dr Collins book previously. What else does he say about the situation in that book?

Dear mjpb,

I'm not going to quote any more from
Dr Paul Collins or anyone else.
It's all been said and done several times over.

For me, this thread has now run its course
and I've said what I wanted to.
I'd only be repeating myself from now on.

Thanks for your constructive input.
I'll see you another thread.

I am deeply saddened by the paedophilia acts crimes and grief
Adults minds and hearts as kids, robbed by certain members of the catholic fraternity unlike that of a common old thief.

Who knows, many victims a casualty of Oz's high divorce rate mate
a good many of these kids not only abused by priests, lay teachers, adults under oath to God, the pope and the vatican, ye souls of hate,
don't forget an odd brother in boarding schools, what of their fate?

As time goes by and victims take action 'Severin',
dont be surprised by the odd still christian reaction
as blokes come forward with pain in their minds hearts and chest
do not chant out "you christians and catholics all supported paedophilia" as you and TBC do best.

Lest we not forget Australia most of these adult victims christians, ex-catholics and catholic husbands and men
Now Aussie ocker blokes in their 40-60's told by brothers and teachers back then: 'we dont believe you, shut up, get on with learning, you crowing rooster or scared little hen.

Too ashamed to tell family for fear of being ridiculed
"Dad something terrible at boarding school happened" Son says to inebriated Dad during the holidays
"What's that son, you made the footy grade, got A's or laid?
Dont forget son, your boarding fees last term already paid.

"Where's Mum? Can I talk to her about something serious?"

Dad laughs, downs another beer and says "On the lounge drunk and delirious".

And what of the loving wives and ex-wives of these victims as men?
Well, profound pain pushed far too deep for too many years
not discussed with psychologists, family or peers.

These guys hold it all within, until the media stories break,
some of their mysoginist traits buried for a time, escape,
targetting those close to them, wives, children and family,
completely unaware of their christian catholic Dad's childhood assaults and rape.

Oliver,
>> … the Church is acting as if it has special privilege above secular law and …parishioners do not apply the standards of Jesus to the Church.<<
As I said I see no point in responding to sweeping statements with sweeping statements.

>> the media’s account of a past Bishop of Boston seems valid and US police are being thwarted by the Church. Why? <<
As far as I remember, this indeed was a nasty case reported some years ago. Nevertheless “thwart” in my dictionary means “prevent (someone) from accomplishing something…”. Well, I do not believe the Church in USA has this power to prevent the course of justice; it would sound more like a conspiracy theory. But then I do not have the details, and not being legally qualified, probably would not understand them anyhow.

If you deny any special privileges to the Church (here I agree with you) then you cannot deny it the right to seek legal and psychiatric advise, like everybody else, influential or not, as ill-advised as they often were by both kinds of speclaists ("pay compensation" and "pedophilia is curable").

Ditto about the case of “Bishop Pican receiving a three-month suspended sentence for failing to report the abuse” you linked to. In anti-Catholic France even more than in USA to think that the Church can influence the judge seems to be ill-informed, to put it mildly. On the contrary, the mild sentence indicates to me that there must have been some extenuating circumstances, but I could not find any details (I cannot read French).

On the other hand, today everybody - within and without the Church - agrees that the letter by Cardinal Hoyos was most inappropriate and “this is the first time the Vatican has conceded that a senior Vatican official committed an error in judgment on the sexual abuse crisis - albeit one later corrected by the future pope” as John L. Allen in your link puts it.

>>The connections between Confession, penance and secrecy are problematic.<<
I agree. (ctd)

(ctd)
>> Absolution withheld, until “after” the priest/brother surrenders to police<<
This indeed seems to be the solution. If you confess stealing $100 from your neighbour the absolution is subject to you returning the money. It is more complicated when larger sums, or other crimes (as, indeed, pedophilia) are concerned.

I am an expert on neither the Canon nor the Common or Civil Law, but it is obvious that a solution must be worked out. This, I believe, is one of the things that e.g. the German Minister of Justice and the Chairman of the German Episcopal Conference are currently looking into.

>>The implication was that the memories of claimants “are” false<<
I did not read that absurd implication about ALL memories of claimants into what Dawkins wrote.

mjpb,
I brought up this quote not so much because of what it says about pedophilia, but because of what it says about Dawkins in light of e.g. http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5341. He either changed his mind since 2006 or his problem is not so much clerical pedophilia as the pope himself.

>>I would never raise this issue as it could easily lead to an incorrect assumption (real or disingenuous) that I don’t believe that due recognition should be given to genuine victims. <<

I agree that one should not raise this issue when considering any particular complaint. However I think this might be relevant if one wants to make conclusions about the NUMBER of accusations (followed or not by prosecution), e.g. in the media .

There are all sorts of misleading factors involved. For instance, in Germany in the middle of the pedophilia revelations, a bishop was accused of abusing minors. It turned out it was about a few harsh slaps he administered as a young priest some thirty years ago. That was wrong, and he admits that, but one should not confuse such things with horrendous sexual abuses (the confusion not always being unintended). The outcome might be that people will not take seriously genuine accusations.