Suze, you wrote;

“…there is one thing I have noticed among the elderly people. The ones that never had children were the saddest and loneliest people by far.”

I replied;

“Suze, I wonder how real this correlation is.”

You said;

“… Ludwig, it wasn't an observation, it was a fact. These people (the ones who could communicate well) told me this, time and time again.”

I respect your view on this, presented after 30 years of nursing. But I still wonder just how good the correlation is.

No doubt there are many old people without kids that do feel lonely as a result. But there are all sorts of other ‘lonelinesses’ such as people who have had kids that have moved away and don’t come to see them or who live nearby and don’t visit or phone or who have turned out to be criminals or no-hopers or who have corrupted relations with their geriatric parent(s).

It could depend on whether an old person has friends or not. This could be much more important than family. An old person who has lost their partner or long-time close friend could feel very lonely indeed even if they do have regular contact with their children.

It could depend on a person’s personality or gregariousness. Or they could be depressed as a result of deep concern about all the bad things happening in the world around them or in the lives of people they know.

People could just feel sad and regretful about being old and past the good times or having not making enough of their life or whatever, even if they do have frequent family visits.

Or heaps of other possibilities.

Being childless in one’s old age is no doubt a major factor for some people but I can’t see it being a major factor overall.

I do worry about possibly being lonely and depressed in my old age and regretful that I didn’t have kids. But I somehow think that it will be a very minor influence. I hope so anyway.

H

>"Ludwig didn't cast judgemental aspersions on my parenting..."<

Neither did I, I questioned the philosophy. Some what tongue in cheek ...your in your face technique.

However, if you read the whole post in context it should have been clear I was using your statement(s) as the vector (segway) to make the real point.

We've been here before, It would appear that it's okay for you to be insulting 90% of the time (Because that's you.).
However, my multi leveled responses (although that's me) aren't.
It seems to me the key difference is your comprehension....not my problem.

But, it was never my intention to be gratuitously hurtful, for THAT I am sorry .

pontificator,

'However, if you read the whole post in context it should have been clear I was using your statement(s) as the vector (segway) to make the real point.'

As in John Howard's a bastard. Speaking of bastards...

a) How would it be 'hurtful'? You don't know the first thing about me. Why would what you say matter to me? You asked why I commented on your use of 'sproglets' and I told you.

b) I find 90% of your judgemental high and mighty posts insulting, and not only to my intelligence.

You don't get it do you. You spend your whole time judging these 'other' people. Look at your attitude compared to pelican about parents. Pelican realises there are more hurdles for some parents and there are different challenges inherent in the personalities of different children. You on the other hand feel it's your place to judge all these parents, to the level of implying only people with your values and resources should even have kids.

This kind of attitude is through all your posts. It's highly offensive. I may joke around, and I doubt anyone else would say that 90% of what I write is 'offensive'. I'm never offended by your sad cheap shots at me. I'm offended by your very essence. That is, the pontificating judgemental high and mighty self aggrandising persona.

BTW: It's your comprehension that is seriously lacking, and with the added advantage of my using proper sentences and punctuation. 'Don't analyse it. Take some prozac.' was not related at all to the decision to have children.

Not to mention, Houellebecq...

>>...my using proper sentences and punctuation<<

...the proper application of the possessive pronoun with a gerund.

Well not proper in that sense. It's a matter of degree. All I want is for him to try, especially if he's gonna go on about comprehension. I've said before if he's genuinely dyslexic then that's fine. Half the time he's barely more readable than one under god. At least one under god hides some absolute gems in there when you bother to read him.

It's particularly perplexing when he puts himself up so high and mighty. You'd think he'd be a stickler for proppa English as much as he is for etiquette and politeness.

H,

Ok, my grammar is poor.
We've been down this route before. The same explanation still applies
And it is still moot as a cause in our 'conflicted communication'.

In my experience grammar correctness has little to do with cogitative competence.

IMO constantly adhere to “do as I say not as I do.”
Contrary to your demonstrably mistaken view, every time anyone communicates they betray details of their true nature/competences as well.

i.e. you almost always refer to me with the personally pejorative term 'pontificator'(not even original) and lace you comments provocation rather than substance.

BTW Others have commented on this too.
> "Get some Prozac man(?) "<
*Just a guess* but Bronwyn wasn't that happy about your unambiguously 2 dimensional portrayal of her.

When refer to the generalised 'other people' that is what I mean . It is not some arcane code for anyone in particular, just don't think like that.

Judgements aren't necessarily pejorative or elitist in my case they are merely observational. I'll leave such emotional reasoning up to others.
We all judge people and events.

Aren't your criticisms of me and others judgements ? Consider this from your 'prozac' post

>"I think a lot of you here suffer from over-analytical disease". "....It's when people cant stop analysing everything, and the nature of analysis leads to finding problems....(wild [false] assumption). You find so many problems and you think everything is bad. (ditto)" <

Your solution analysing why one has wants children >"Switch off your mind, and you may just be able to feel more, leading to a happier existence. Maybe you wouldn't be able to deal with it though". < What do you think this says about the real you?

I responded to what you said and then went onto explain my extension of that attitude.
Your made the personal criticism of you. I challenged what you SAID.