Shadow Minister

<< When I said that there's nothing stopping the boat people hopping on a ferry to the mainland once released from detention, I wasn’t referring to anything in the past, just what can now happen with the dropping of the temporary protection visas. >>

You stated that asylum-seekers on Christmas Island can hop on a ferry to the mainland BEFORE their asylum status is verified. This is TOTALLY INCORRECT. It’s happened once, as the exceptional circumstance I described before, and that was recently, NOT in the past.

You’re confusing your terminology and demonstrating your ignorance of asylum-seeker law. Refugees who are granted asylum in Australia are now given permanent protection instead of a temporary visa, but they DON'T come to the mainland until their refugee status is verified. It's the dropping of indefinite detention, as much as it is TPVs, which is the point you're trying to make.

Yabby

<< Sheesh, my three sheepdogs each have a beanbag by the fire, they have a doggie door to come and go, only was has ever worn a collar. Two of the three are snoozing on the couch, the youngster is out chasing a couple of rabbits. According to your beliefs Bronwyn, I must be a saint :) >>

Ah very funny Yabby. Yes, I agree, it sounds as though your sheepdogs do indeed have a good life. Hopefully, it continues long after they’ve served their usefulness to you as working dogs. Unfortunately though, this aberrant act of decency doesn’t negate the thousands of cold and callous words you’ve written on topics like live sheep export, for example. Sorry to inform you but you're a long way from Saint Yabby yet. :)

<< So why don't the boats sail to Japan, or Cambodia, or China? >>

You know the answer, Yabby. It’s because these countries are not signatories to the Refugee Convention.

Contrary to your fearmongering, the boats aren't all coming to Australia. Tens of thousands of Sri Lankan asylum-seekers are going to Europe, India and elsewhere. Only a very small proportion are trying to get to Australia.

Smithy456

I can see that English is not one of your strong points. I would guess you work with you hands, as your mind is definitely not your sharpest tool.

"Shadow Minister's quote shows that he is ready to accept a possibility of 10s of thousands of boat people"

I don't deny it, and never claimed not to.

What I didn't see as a possibility was Rudd's claim that there would little change. This was absolute BS. I, however, didn't say that 10s of thousand would come, as this was just one end of the range of possibilities.

The nub of TZ'z attack on me was my claim that I had made a series of predictions in the past which were spot on. TZ claimed this was not true, and implied that I had predicted that there would be 10s of thousand of refugees, was clearly false.

Your fuzzy brain might struggle with big words like possible and probable, but try looking them up. Twit.

Also try looking up Xenophobic as you seem not to be able to grasp that concept either. I have an issue with people illegally entering the country to rort the asylum application system, as I have with anyone that breaks the law I am a crimaphobe (yes I made it up). As I have personally brought in a Tamil family legally, I have no issue with their being foreign.

Bronwyn,

The new detention protocol determines that asylum seekers should be released once they are determined not to be a security threat, which is likely to occur before their asylum status is determined. They cannot leave detention onto Aus soil without a visa.

As the temp protection visa is no longer possible, the standard residence visa gives them the right to freedom of movement. Therefore they will be able to move to the mainland and cannot be legally stopped.

I am not an expert in Immigration law, so maybe you could point out where my analysis is wrong. What is to keep them from the mainland? Don't just tell me it can't happen, tell me why.

It's revealing to see that Shadow Minister is now resorting to personal abuse because he's not winning the argument. That's the way some people behave and it reflects only on them. It's called immaturity.

Shadow Minister in his most recent post has lied about what TZ claimed. Tz did not claim that Shadow Minister had predicted 10s of thousands of boat people. The only person to use the word "predicted" has been Shadow Minister, nobody else.

TZ wrote this, "Shadow Minister believes 10s of thousands of boat people will be coming" in reply to Shadow Ministers quote, "perhaps you would care to show where I predicted this". Bingo, TZ was correct. Not once has TZ claimed that Shadow Minister "predicted" anything. TZ is correct because Shadow Minister has confirmed, in his last post, that he believes 10s of thousands of boat people may be on the way over to here. Shadow Minister wrote "I don't deny it" in that last post of his, in reply to "Shadow Minister's quote shows that he is ready to accept the possibility of tens of thousands of boat people". This is what TZ has been saying all along, and until the above post Shadow Minister has been denying it all along.

This is why people are xenophobic about what they falsely claim as a flood of boat people. They don't see the actual, real world numbers. What they see is a flood of boat people, 10s of thousands of them, all on their way to here.

Ok Shadow Minister, let's hear more of your personal abuse and juvenile name calling. Please continue, it's entertaining us. That's obviously all you have left, but it's so nice your house is made of glass. We can see right through it. Have a nice day ol' chum. PS: Better luck next time.

Well thanks smithy, but I really don't need defending. SM puts his foot in his mouth every time he posts on this.

Of course the whole basis of this is that Shadow Minister believes there may be 10s of thousands of boat people on their way.

I outed his errant belief quite a few pages ago. Then finally, when cornered, he outed himself in his above post when he wrote that he didn't deny it.

Good word, xenophobia......... thanks smithy. It describes people like Shadow Minister very well indeed. He's xenophobic specifically towards "boat people"; he's clearly no different from the minority of fearful, scared Aussies dreading the mythical INVASION of 10s of thousands of boat people. Sad individuals. No heart. No humanity. No perspective.

The only real solution for displaced people is for the WHOLE world to bear it's responsibilities

Shadow Minister: "I would guess you work with you hands, as your mind is definitely not your sharpest tool."

Wow. What a classy retort, Shadow.

Shadow Minister: "What I didn't see as a possibility was Rudd's claim that there would little change. This was absolute BS."

So you keep saying. You are emphatic the influx asylum seekers is caused by Budd's changes, but given there are other possible explanations and the lack of solid evidence pointing to any particular one your certainty looks like an ideologues dogma to me.

Anyway whether perceptions have changed or not, what clearly hasn't changed is the treatment of asylum seekers. Regardless of what the law says they may be able to do, they plainly remain confined in an excised territory. I assume most of them will be classed as legit asylum seekers and allowed in because that is what happened in the Howard years.

Shadow Minister: "standard residence visa gives them the right to freedom of movement."

Where do that get that visa from? They can't apply for one and they aren't given one: http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/81excised-offshore.htm

I guess what annoys you is that most of the boat people will be successful and gain citizenship. That I can understand. What I can't understand is:

- Laying the blame for this at the feet of the asylum seekers, daemonising them. Whats with that? We are the ones letting them in.

- Delusional claims the only reason we let them is is the Howard era DIC offers were repeatedly suckered.

- Suggestions if we treat them badly enough, they will go away. What would you (SM/Yabby/Banjo/Horus) suggest - put them in cells, forced labour, public floggings for the world to see?

You are just bellicose old men pussy footing around. Face facts. These are real asylum seekers. While we are signatories to the UNHCR, we will end up taking them in because no one else wants them. While that is so they will continue to come, because anybody being persecuted in their own country who has 1/2 a brain will take advantage of it.

*It’s because these countries are not signatories to the Refugee Convention*

Not so Bronwyn. According to the UNHCR website, all three indeed
are! You clearly are making this up, as you go along :)

There are clear similarities between you and Dickie. Both
overwhelmed with emotion, to the point where all reason flies
out the window. Never mind if your country is blackmailed. Never
mind if the system is clearly open to being screwed. The
poor dears need bemothering. To give you credit, at least you know
a little more about refugees, then Dickie ever knew about livestock.

Dickie tried the same argument about Australia's reputation. I was
reading a report the other night, about a boat off Europe, which was
sinking, full of asylum seekers from Africa. 10 ships sailed
past, not one would stop. So I don't think Australia has too
much to worry about, when it comes to our reputation.

Here is your quote once again Bronnie, from the 23rd April:

*I learnt long ago that Yabby's heart is well and truly ruled by his head. And of course he thinks
the reverse of the likes of you and me.*

So I have good reason to mention your motherly instincts, when it
comes to this debate, for they clearly affect your judgement,
as your posts show. Fair enough, we are all different, but it did
need to be clarified once again.