rstuart. I know it is excluded, just that some feel fear of persecution has a whole new meaning in our new nanny state world.

RobP, I read the article, it goes on about the 78, missing the point
entirely. Principle is at stake in that case, that is the issue.

Do we reward blackmail with permanent residency? Do we send another
ship out, when a boat sinks, only to risk more blackmail? Govt
policy should be about certain principles, its not a chook raffle.

Rstuart, the DIC is hardly going to advertise, when it gets it
wrong. Horus makes a valid point. How many of previously accepted
asylum seekers, now fly home for a visit? It would be interesting
for somebody to check that one out with figures.

The single Afghan thrown down a well, is quoted over and over again.
1 single individual. You miss the big picture here. 31'000 Iranians
die in traffic accidents each year, 100'000 Americans are shot
each year. By rights we should accept them all for living in
such dangerous places!

Sage's post highlighted the weaknesses in the system extremely well

>>Do we reward blackmail with permanent residency? Do we send another
ship out, when a boat sinks, only to risk more blackmail? Govt
policy should be about certain principles, its not a chook raffle.<<

Yabby,

That assumes that blackmail is going on. When people are truly fleeing, blackmail is NOT on their mind. But, that's the job of the Immigration Department to figure out.

Speaking of missing the point, Yabby, how can you be so sure that people arriving here on plane are better migrants than those coming by boat, which is what our policy is implicitly saying? Why demonise one type of people but not the other? That's one of the major issues being raised here. That's an issue you've completely glossed over to date.

Most visa overstayers are tourists who had no intention of staying permanently, and roughly 4000 p.a. apply for refuge.

Similarily, while only about 40 boats have arrived in the 2 years of Labor, he neglects to mention that nearly all of them have arrived in the last few months.

Crispin Hull who decries the media distortion has no problem with distorting the facts himself. I suppose you can suspend morality as long as it is in a good cause.

Yabby,

In Canada there were 8,600 requests for travel documents by Tamils awaiting refugee status claims for travel home. Not even granted refugee status, just pending cases in one year alone.

Many quote fear as the reason there is objection to boat arrival by Australians. They do not see perhaps they are the ones taken in by fear propoganda whipped up regarding the conditions and risks in other countries. I do actually believe some fears of aslyum seekers are from manufactured claims rather than real dangers. Especially when they have been in the north that had been ethnically cleansed. They would only hear stories of what happens outside without any real experience. So they may feel a great sense of fear but whether it is justified is highly debateable and not helped by spreading of propoganda as some self proclaimed "humane" people do.

The other sense is that people would only take such risk for real fear of persection rather than the pursuit of money. I spent a number of years on the US border and I can assure you the desire for money is a far, far greater pull than personal safety.

*That assumes that blackmail is going on.*

RobP, of course its blackmail! They refuse to get off the frigging
boat, unless its in Australia! I thought they were concerned about
their lives being saved, apparently not.

People who come here by plane, generally have a visa, even for
a holiday. They also have a return ticket. We know who they are.
We can send them back on the next plane, if we have to. Not so
with somebody who has thrown away their documents.

That makes processing much easier and cost effective, in comparison
to the little joke called the boat trade, where one moment we
say we'll grant them asylum, then fight them off with sticks.

Take the case of "Alex". Had he sailed here, thrown away his
papers and not appeared on tv for all to recognise, he probably
would have been granted residency here. For unless he tripped
up in his interview, he would not even have to mention having
been in jail in Canada, but just sign a form. Not so if he'd
flown here, we could check his ID.

If you are a crim and want to come to Aus, the boat trade is the
way to go, for obvious reasons.