Banjo

<< They are entitled to get a factual view of what illegals are about, not just the romantic spin and propaganda put forward by those encouraging illegal entrance to Aus. >>

Firstly, I don't engage in spin and propaganda, and secondly, I'm not about 'encouraging illegal entrance'. I'm arguing that asylum-seekers be treated fairly and humanely, and that they not be demonised by the likes of you.

<< Fact. The Tampa was hijacked by those that she rescued, Captains evidence, under oath, stated he was concerned for safety after threats were made and altered course to Christmas Island, which was not his chosen destination. >>

Christmas Island WAS the captain's chosen destination once he'd rescued the asylum-seekers, as it was by far the nearest port. He was ordered not to go there by the Howard Government, but to instead turn back to Indonesia, more than four times the distance. This is when some of the asylum-seekers understandably remonstrated, but to describe their actions as a highjacking is just more of your fanciful demonisation.

<< Fact. The 78 on board the Oceanic Viking are preventing her from going about her normal business. That also could be considered hijacking. >>

Again, only by the likes of you.

<< Any fair and normal person would be thankfull to the rescuers and be eternally gratefull. Not these frauds. >>

Nobody at this stage has proof that any of them are frauds. Thirty-seven of them have already been assessed by the UNHCR in Indonesia and found to be genuine refugees. They've since spent four and five years in Indonesia waiting for a country to take them in, many of them in truly wretched conditions. They're understandably reluctant to disembark there, where they'll likely wait another five, ten, fifteen years. They're unable to work, the children can't go to school, and evidence is mounting that they're being severely mistreated.

<< The difference between the success rate for the illegals ... destroy their papers and identies. >>

Violins please. Banjo's at it again.

And to think I once liked the banjo as an instrument.

*Some sections of our community have simply lost their humanity.*

Not so TZ, some sections of the community look at things from
various perspectives, not all wear their hearts on their
sleeves, as you and Bronwyn do. Some of us are realists.

Trashing Austalia to satisify your emotional needs, is IMHO
not a wise option. You still have to state how many refugees
that you think Australia should take, before you think that
the barricades should go up. So far you have avoided the
question.

*I’ve always believed a person’s views on animals are a revealing window into their soul*

Sheesh, my three sheepdogs each have a beanbag by the fire, they
have a doggie door to come and go, only was has ever worn a collar.
Two of the three are snoozing on the couch, the youngster is out
chasing a couple of rabbits. According to your beliefs Bronwyn,
I must be a saint :)

*The boats have never stopped coming.*

So why don't the boats sail to Japan, or Cambodia, or China?

Bronwyn,
Holy Internationale Bronwyn, they got you hook line and sinker didn’t they.

--First we had the little Bo Peep line on refugees.
--Then last week had your mini Al Gore sermon on AGW
--Now, today, we see the Leon Trotsky US imperialism memorial lecture.
And all on the one thread!

Incidentally, did you know that those poor Mexicans are also rednecked xenophobes (as CJ is wont to put it)
They express great anger that outsiders are using their towns & farms as transit points to the US .

And as for the Tampa affair:
“Christmas Island WAS the captain's chosen destination once he'd rescued the asylum-seekers, as it was by far the nearest port. He was ordered not to go there by the Howard Government, but to instead turn back to Indonesia, more” LOL

You clearly haven’t read the transcript –please go and read it and have another think about it,
I’ll bet if they were white South Africans or Zimbabweans fleeing you’d see the intimidation and evil intent very clearly!

TZ52HX,

I said “Perhaps you would care to show where I PREDICTED this”, fully aware of my previous post on Rudd’s credibility.

My comment was “If Rudd just stopped trying to BS the electorate and said, the pacific solution was wrong, and we accept that we will get 10s of thousands of refugees on boats, then we would believe him.” As opposed to him telling us that there would be no change.

I didn’t think you would be as underhanded or as dense as to deliberately misquote my comment as a prediction, but you were.

Bronwyn,

When I said that there is nothing stopping the boat people hopping on a ferry to the mainland once released from detention, I wasn’t referring to anything in the past, just what can now happen with the dropping of the temporary protection visas.

If they were free to roam on Nauru, they were still not on Aus soil and could not go to Aus without going through customs.

Rstuart,

The ill treatment of the boat people is happening to those caught by the Indonesians under Rudd’s new Indonesian solution, and not to those living there. Those on the boats were not in the detention camps before they attempted to leave.

Shadow Minister is attempting to mislead and squirm himself out of the hole he dug for himself. TZ is 100% correct. Shadow Minister's quote shows that he is ready to accept a possibility of 10s of thousands of boat people. TZ quoted Shadow Minister in absolute context. For Shadow Minister to ridiculously argue it was not a prediction, but rather some type of belief is ludicrously splitting hairs to get himself out of a tight spot. It's ludicrous because either way, Shadow Minister by that statement shows he stands with the xenophobes. It's clear that TZ considers Shadow Minister a xenophobe when it comes to people on boats, and I think TZ caught out Shadow Minister very well.

TZ makes a very good point several times in this thread about the entire world needing to take responsibility for refugees, not just the 1st world countries. TZ is spot on with that. All the nations need to increase their involvement, especially in conflict resolution.

Yabby

<< Today I can only put all this down to some recent studies which show that high oxytocin females, who also make great mothers, tend to be more gullible the average, due to the oxytocin effect. >>

Ah Yabby, just as you did when Dickie was running rings around you on animal rights threads, so too you're doing it here. Whenever female opponents are showing you up and making your arguments look a bit thin, you resort to your old fallback position and toss in a few patronizing and sexist put downs. It always made Dickie look a whole head taller every time you did it, and I daresay it will have the same effect here.

<< Bronnie has freely admitted on OLO, that her heart rules her head. >>

That comment is being quoted unfairly. When viewed in its complete context, I doubt very much that that would have been the case.

Horus

<< --First we had the little Bo Peep line on refugees. --Then last week had your mini Al Gore sermon on AGW --Now, today, we see the Leon Trotsky US imperialism memorial lecture. And all on the one thread! >>

You're getting good value then, aren't you? Stop whinging. :)

<< You clearly haven’t read the transcript ... >>

I'm very familiar with the Tampa story and have no need to re-read the transcript. The true shame of Tampa does not lie in the so-called 'high jacking' actions of those rescued. It lies in the fact that our prime minister callously ordered the captain to take his cargo hold - of severely traumatised, heat-stressed, injured and ill asylum seekers - in direct contravention of international maritime law, thirteen hours away to Indonesia when all the while he was only a few hours from help at an Australian port.