The thread has amused me.
But it has left me questioning conservative views.
I have said clearly Labor too, has its middle aged men.
Well fed plump, far from underfed, fat men.
A respected conservative RObert has highlighted one man leadership, Rudd?
Surely yes surely we all know todays conservative tar pit comes as a result of just that?
John Howard [with the seeming exception of his some what strident wife] was just that.
Unable to let his control go?
And can the Bronwyn Bishops, Wilson Tucky's, that strange lady second in charge of the conservative ship Titanic be seen as healthy?
Or are they opening the pipes to the sea?
I am confident no white wash can hide the fact this movement is in deep trouble.
Devision is death in politics, rebuilding can only come via the impending disaster.
Silly as it sounds I hope new blood comes into the house on conservatives benches but warn it will need to be via very safe seats, the crash has been well earned by a dysfunctional party.

Dear Belly,

What you say makes a lot of sense.

But .....

Do you really think that new blood on the seats
of the conservatives is going to make that much
difference to a dysfunctional party?
Will the new blood be allowed to get anywhere?
Until the party wakes up to itself - and realizes
that just attacking policies is not the answer - giving
alternative solutions is - they are simply going
to remain on the sidelines of politics.

Belly I was thinking of both Howard and Rudd as "leaders" with a reputation for shutting down opposing views within their own parties.

Foxy there is a theory that we don't change governments based on the great policies of the other side but because we have got so sick of the current mob that a change seems necessary. The cynic in me thinks that attacking is just what is required to get power (not to provide good government). Labor was very successful with it's union run anti-workchoices campaign although the details of policy were not all that clear to most. To some extent the campaign against the coalitions treatment of "boat people" was also successful although I doubt that many realised the alternative was Indonesian run detention centers.

Policies announced too early give the other side to much time to attack the policy, to build negative perceptions against the policy without the opportunity to put it into place and people to see some benefits. It's not the way I'd like it to be but it does seem to be an unpleasant reality of our political system.

If we mistake tightly controlled for functional we make a bad mistake.

R0bert

Dear RObert,

You raise some valid well-reasoned points.

I don't expect the Opposition to give out
concrete policies as such, however I do wish
that they'd stop sounding like broken records
with their constant criticisms of everything
the Government does. When asked how they would
improve things? They offer no opinions whatsoever,
no indications of any alternatives - they make no
distinctions between themselves and Labor - only
the lame explanation - "We're not in Government!"
They don't give one reason to the voters as to
why we shouldn't keep the current mob in power!

So what the heck do they stand for these days?

Foxy what do either of the major parties stand for now days?

The libs have been fairly clear that the stimulus package should havde been smaller and more measured but don't seem to have said just what size it should have been. I suspect that I lot would still like to have had something like work choices (but politically it' so on the nose that it's currently a dead issue). Clearly there is not a united front on global warming and I think that is for a variety of reasons.

Labor has made gestures but from where I sit look more like window dressing than a genuine stand, the "Sorry" statement which does not seem to have changed much else, a fix for the environment which seems to be an excuse for a new tax meanwhile Rudd joins All Gore in using a private jet to fly around the world to talk about climate change. Other committments such as access to laptops for certain school students seem to be trickle fed.

I think that they both stand for getting into power or keeping power and the less the voting public really knows about what they stand for the better the chance that they have of doing so.

R0bert

Foxy, RObert here is what I truly think, not support for my team.
Work choices was just a symptom of a government gone bad.
Both labor and Liberal, who cares about the mining party, sorry Nationals, want to reform IR.
Want to increase productivity and loosen up the workplace.
I did not say I like it.
But I do agree, some unions, bought the movement trouble.
Links with American Republican ideas must never be ignored.
Both our Liberals and that other dysfunctional mob Republicans are hell bent on self destruction.
But a true Liberal rump exists, if in both country's it can grow, at present it can not get nominated for seats, it will one day retake government.
My Labor needs good opposition to stay on track.
But look at NSW we once could be proud of our achievements.
I remember the instant the car radio broke the news we had won a seat that said we could rule in our own right.
Me and my union official dancing with joy on the expressway while motorists laughed.
Even the dead carcass of my NSW Labor will rise again, be great again.
Conservatives will too, not without pain, not without dumping the extremist red necks.
Not for at least three elections,not before huge influx of true Liberals.
And in time Barnaby Joyce and his party of self interest and internal confrontation will die on the vine and conservatives will be better for it, maybe not the miners however.