there are allways....ALLWAYS...more slaves than elites running/ruling it over them...se the elites are clever...while slaves think they are dumb

churches used to lord it over them because they had the smarts...well in time some slaves...realised...they wernt that smart...in short..the control mechanisms were failing...seems everyone was smart

but then they out smarted the serfs...bought in a god free theorum..based on clever[elites...that replace the state that was...serfs allowing others to be wiser...to the state where the science now undrpins the elites

you lot are too dumb to realise...its just the elite[clever...lording it over the ignorant/serf/wage slave...via a new belief system...that gives them believability

your to ignorant..about science to make any informed opinion...ditto the deception of global cooling/warming...ditto the govt spin...you simply havnt the smarts enough to test the evidence...for your lower/serf/wageslave/cashcow/selves..

your hypnotised by names/titles/lables...clever high priests are claiming ...'higher''...knowing..than you....the ignorant masses/slaves/uselesseaters

thus the neo elite..they lord it over the serfs like allways..via a new[neo]..dis-belief system...with its elite messengers/proffits/prophetts...and the docile sheep/herd doing as pavloves dogs...salivating on demand

Dear Suze and Pelly,

Thanks for your great responses (as always).
Organized religion has a lot to answer for -
and as I've written in other threads - in many
cases they've become as calcified as other institutions
that form the structure of our modern world.

However, having said that I've got to admit that
the Requiem Mass I attended recently (when my
step-father passed away) brought great comfort to me
and the family during this difficult time. I guess
rituals like these serve to bring people together,
to remind them of their common group memberships, to
re-affirm their traditional values; and to offer comfort
in times of crisis. Perhaps shared religious beliefs
and the rituals that go with them serve an important
function in society, perhaps we need a "religion," or
some form of belief system that serves the same functions.

Of course, I'm not interested in converting any one.
I've got enough problems staying on my own life's path.
For me, I'm still searching. I no longer believe deeply
in traditional religion as such, but I haven't found a
satisfying substitute.

As for the Atheism Convention - I would assume that it would
be on a far broader range of subjects - and simply for that
reason I'm interested in hearing what the speakers have to
say.

i see emerging a loose coalition of left wing/right wing athiests..

who seeing the bigger cause..get to-gether..to offer their alternative..god free religion..and more a political lobby..with numbers

...willing to forego..their moral standing..on specific issues...to allow one voice..to speak for them politiclly morally[all that religion gave]

just like any politico organisation...someone is seeking a seat at the table...on the promise of bulk votes...but there is the rub

you liberals/you labourites...

is your sameness in disbelief...STONGER than your party loyalties...?

this group's leadership..who wants to be heard...on the claim of delivering votes..are decieved...equally after a bit of power...by deception...your not going to sway...our party line..one jot

no one puts athiesm ahead of their party loyalty...
no doudt the next step is the..athiest party/lobby

imagine a future party..allready sucking the public purse
by their deeds..will they be revealed...lol

just the revealtion of the political adgenda..
reveals the whole scam....

your not going to get heard...running with the athiests...who will claim to be..politiclly speaking on your behalf..!

we have seen the humanitarians sucked in,,,next the agnostics...even the open minded who attend...your attendance will be claimed to be representing you,..politicly...

they are selling your numbers..as a bought/sold group/single..issue/vote...

to get their foot in the door...to the powers that be

its call about power...having the appearance of numbers...like all the farmers organisations...that join each others members lists..looking big..yet only minours networking..giving the impression..of many organisations its the same minority/elite...

looking bigger than they be..despite farmers being a minority...thier many//polical//farmer groups..makes it LOOK huge

the collective lobby has an..apparent..large base...but the foundational base of the athiests is more feeble...

you cant speak for all the godless..that this apparent/ single issue...has many a divergent voter/party/polical base..is undeniable

the bigger/numbers will also help..get more govt laregess

this is a neo[new] political group...with the sole aim...of removing god...mention of god...ritual of god...allready seeking govt gift

the confused mindnumb sheeple are led..into a science deception/god/replacement..for the godless by choice...made in complete ignorance of the full meaning..behind its replacement...a political movement

Suze, Pelican & Foxy

Right there with you vis a vis your thoughts regarding the Atheist Convention, both the positive aspects and the concerns that it should ever become evangelistic.

Foxy your thoughts on the ritual for grieving as you did for your stepfather have been similarly in mine as well - for the Samoans and Tongans with their losses due to the havoc wreaked upon their islands. As a visitor to Tonga, I was impressed by the shell encrusted burial mounds that sit along roadways among houses for all to pay their respects. While Tongans (like Samoans) have adopted Christianity, the family burial mounds are a legacy of earlier religious rituals. I believe (apart from the social aspect) that ritual surrounding the loss of loved ones is a wonderful way to work through grief. Ritual is common to all religions, atheism by its nature of independent thought is unlikely to provide the sense of community and support that religious rituals offer. I do not believe that by accepting ritual one should then blindly believe in a deity - especially the one as described in the bible, however, there is need basic human need for ritual in circumstances of loss.

Christians commandeered pagan rituals for their own use: Christmas, Easter etc. Perhaps we are ready to re-create religious rituals so that they become inclusive of all people instead of just the ones who believe in the supernatural.

For my family, Christmas is celebrated as a family day, the intent being a gathering and acknowledgment of all family and friends. Easter is celebrated similarly with hunting of chocolate eggs for children, being truer to the pagan celebration of fertility than to an execution that may or may not have occurred.

In conclusion, I believe that that idea of an atheist convention is not such an oxymoron as some think.

I find myself in the dismaying position of agreeing with Under One God. I do not support the idea of an 'atheist party'. I think the idea would be divisive and counter-productive. I do, however, support the idea of a secular lobby to counter the religious pressure brought to bear by groups such as the Australian Christian Lobby, the Catholic bishops and the Exclusive Brethren.

Oh, please.

>>if there was a large gathering of accountants, they could certainly apply for funding.<<

Let's stay in the real world.

By definition, atheism should not be harnessed for political ends.

The only possible common platform is anti-religion. which is untenable as a concept ("how dare you dictate to me what I may or may not believe in"), and politically dangerous, inviting comparisons with Stalin and Pol Pot.

Tired old cliches they may be, but they make great headlines.

It all sounds very highbrow, natch.

>>atheists are happy for anyone to believe whatever they wish - providing they do not impose their views on the rest of us, use their religious dogma to justify anti-social, discriminatory or violent behaviour, or inflict psychological or physical harm upon children or other defenceless acolytes<<

One man's "psychological harm" is, of course, another's "ethical guidance".

But the reality is that we already have a system in place through which atheists may express their - individual - views on abortion, same-sex marriages, "human rights, civil rights and social justice" etc., without leaving ourselves open to the same charges levelled against religious groups.

>>The Convention is about disseminating knowledge, finding out what we *do* agree on and calling for policies which provide equity and choice.<<

What "knowledge" is there to be disseminated?

What "agreement" could possibly be reached?

The entire force of atheism, surely, is to avoid having to bow to someone else's version of "the Truth", to retain the ability to think, decide and act for oneself, and to take the responsibility that goes with those actions.

Such a Convention is like painting a series of concentric circles on your bum and saying "shoot here". It is playing into the hands of smug religionists, who are looking forward to the opportunity to expose it for the sham that it is.

The only possible justification for the entire event is to push someone's individual lust for political power.

A sort of atheist version of Fred Nile, without the charm.