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The Forum > General Discussion > The Rise of Atheism - Convention

The Rise of Atheism - Convention

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The proposition that an atheist convention may turn atheism into a religion is untenable. If a group of accountants attends a convention do we complain that accountancy is becoming a religion? At a medical convention surely debate and the expression of diverse views is essential? Why should our Convention be any different?

It is true that atheists are a diverse lot. But then, so are the members of most political parties. Do we assume that every single Labor member agrees with every single Labor policy? I actually believe there are many issues on which atheists *can* agree. Surely we agree that the passage of human rights, civil rights and social justice policies should be judged on their merits and not be stymied by religious dogma? Surely we agree that religious institutions should not be exempt from anti-discrimination laws? And does it really matter whether we call ourselves atheists or humanists? Do we want to split hairs or change policies?

If theists confined their beliefs to themselves, there may be no need for atheists to unite, convene and politicize. It is because religious lobbyists use *their* political influence to restrict *our* freedoms that organized opposition must be mounted. I am all for religious freedom. If you do not wish to have an abortion, marry someone of the same sex, or choose euthanasia then you should be absolutely free to make those decisions - just as I should be free to make different choices.

If theists have an inequitable influence on political policy, we have only ourselves to blame. The government courts religious fundamentalists because they are united, and can deliver a bloc of votes. The Convention provides an opportunity for atheists to show some unity and say, "We vote too!"

So, are we going to make a stand? Or do we just want to grizzle amongst ourselves on the internet and do nothing?
Posted by Chrys Stevenson, Monday, 12 October 2009 10:45:30 PM
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Trikkerdee and Chrys
I also see your points to an extent. Spiritualism or religion is a very personal thing. I am not comfortable with evangelism - the idea that everyone must convert others to their way of thinking.

People will and do tend to find their own path whether it be of a religious nature or not.

Atheists throwing their views into the evangelical mix just adds to the boiling pot. It is not that atheism will become another religion, that is not possible. However, atheists might certainly behave like some religious groups in their fervour to push the idea that their's is the only right way.

For me atheism is a choice, including mine, but I don't expect others to necessarily share my point of view. To some people their religion is very important.

Atheism is growing because we are evolving (IMO). For me we do atheism more harm if we go down the 'evangelical' road or adopt a conversion agenda.

That said, there is nothing wrong with an Atheist conference if the goal is to meet other atheists who are like-minded, just as a group of quilters or bonsai enthusiasts might. I just got the feeling that the Atheist movement was more than just for social events.

I do have some sympathy with the view that religions have had it their way for too long and have been until recent times, largely unchallenged. However, in secular Australia there is a greater separation between State and Church than in many other nations and unlike those nations, we have nothing to fear from religious intervention.

Yes, there have been times when our leaders have stuck their nose in various debates according to their religious principles, but as long as they are honest about their proclivities I think we are all capable of making up our own minds.
Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 8:03:36 AM
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Of course there's nothing wrong with atheists having a conference. After all, fans of Star Trek get together too.

But Trekkies don't issue press releases that take aim at the folks who dress up for late night showings of The Rocky Horror Show.

I may be pleasantly surprised, and be proved totally wrong, but I strongly suspect that The Atheism Convention will issue press releases, of a similarly ingratiating and self-congratulatory nature as did Catholic Youth Day last year.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

>>The proposition that an atheist convention may turn atheism into a religion is untenable. If a group of accountants attends a convention do we complain that accountancy is becoming a religion?<<

But when was the last time an accountancy convention applied to the government for funding?

>>Hello Foxy, Thanks for your kind words. Yes, we have applied for a very small amount of government funding and it is still being considered.<<

If you don't want to be thought of as a religion, don't act like one. Last year we had the fun and games surrounding bus advertisements... why? To "counter" the advertisements for Christianity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7681914.stm

"We see so many posters advertising salvation through Jesus or threatening us with eternal damnation, that I feel sure that a bus advert like this will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air."

There's a point at which the camouflage of "fighting fire with fire" turns into the realization that you have become the very embodiment of that which you are campaigning against.

Keep religion out of atheism, that's what I say.

Protest by all means against pro-religious favouritism.

But you don't need a government-funded quasi-religious convention to achieve that.

Because all you finish up with is...

<<The Convention provides an opportunity for atheists to show some unity and say, "We vote too!"<<

A bumper sticker.

"Honk if you don't believe in Jesus"
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 8:36:58 AM
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Funding for large conventions is provided by the Victorian Government on the basis that these events promote tourism and inject money into the Victorian economy - in no sense has the Victorian government been asked to fund the promotion of atheism. And yes, if there was a large gathering of accountants, they could certainly apply for funding.

I understand that the application that has been made is exceedingly modest given the millions of dollars applied for and given to religious events.

There is absolutely no agenda of 'evangelism' involved in the Convention. In general, atheists are happy for anyone to believe whatever they wish - providing they do not impose their views on the rest of us, use their religious dogma to justify anti-social, discriminatory or violent behaviour, or inflict psychological or physical harm upon children or other defenceless acolytes.

Political influence requires unity. A Convention is an efficient way to begin that process. It does not require that everyone agree on every issue - only that we agree on sufficient issues to make a stand on them. Australia, by the way, has no constitutional separation of church and state. Section 116 of the Constitution requires only that all religions be treated equally.

The Convention provides an amazing opportunity to hear the views of leading public intellectuals, scientists, feminists, human rights activists, academics, authors and former Christians - and to make up your *own* mind about their arguments. The Convention is about disseminating knowledge, finding out what we *do* agree on and calling for policies which provide equity and choice.

Atheism is on the rise - not only in Australia, but across the Western world. It is not unreasonable to draw our politicians' attention to this fact - and a Global Atheist Convention is a positive and effective means of doing so.
Posted by Chrys Stevenson, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 9:23:16 AM
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Chrys, thank you for such a cogent response. I could not have put it any better myself.
Posted by jbgoestocollege, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 9:28:26 AM
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Coincidentally in the wake of the Atheist International Convention held recently in LA, Landon Ross has made a similar argument today in the Huffington Post. He says, in part:

"American atheists and agnostics outnumber all (American) Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus combined, so how many lobbying firms do we have in Washington? You might imagine my surprise when Sean Faircloth, Executive Director of the Secular Coalition for America, gave me his sobering answer: one ... his own. That's right, in the face of the Christian lobby and the religious right - with more money than "god" in their coffers - we secularists are an insignificant speed-bump. That we have reason and the constitution on our side won't make enough of a difference, if we don't organize.

It's a (bad) joke we tell each other: organizing atheists is like herding cats (we're no flock of sheep). I can see the malformed logic behind this, and many repeat the meme, but the reality is that there's no reason this should be true. Heterogeneous groups are quite capable of organizing behind a cause, or a movement. Luckily, I felt a sense of growing urgency and frustration at this year's conference. No longer can we afford to play nice with those who refuse to be reasonable."

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/landon-ross/the-god-crisis_b_316606.html
Posted by Chrys Stevenson, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 9:49:59 AM
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