I also beg to differ Hasbeen.
The poorest, most needy people I go to in the community, except for the homeless, are the single pensioners who don't own their own home.

Obviously they are in public housing because they could never afford the usual rent.The government is not known for their charitable works as far as giving money away!

The pensioners who own their own homes (but no other assets) don't need to pay any rent at all, and most seemed able to do more financially with their time than the others (like both my parents and their friends).

Sounds like sour grapes to me Hasbeen? Walk a mile in most of the state-housing pensioners shoes before you comment next time.

Pelican; You are complaining about government housing pensioners versus the plight of other pensioners but what are you offering in the way of meaningful suggestions.

I will give you a meaningful suggestion. Give tax payers assurity that a portion of the taxes they pay, throughout there working life, will be returned to them in the form of a pension no matter how much or how little money they amass throughout their working life and I think you will see a different story.

Where else in life do you contribute lots, yet receive little, or zero.

It's a bit like buying a pizza, only you get the box while someone else gets the pizza.

Until something is done , we will continue to see the 'doers' crusified while the 'non-doers' get rewarded.

Keeping ones money under ones pillow sounds good hey! Why pay the taxes, you won't benefit in the long run unless some serious changes are forth comming.

I think we need a lot less Govt and more individual repsonsibility.Once you take from individuals reponsibility,they don't try as hard to secure their own futures,thus we have whole generations of dysfunctional people who are a burden to themselves and the tax payer.

The other side to big Govt is that 50% of taxes collected are wasted in the bureaucracy.We have tax churning whereby 60% are being taxed and the money handed back in the form of social security.It is insane.Just get Govt out of our lives and 95% will be far better off.

Dr Ron Paul the member for Texas USA beleives in eliminating whole Govt Depts.No dept of Education for example.Perhaps he is right.

Tax payers, well maybe not the rich, pay for pensioners in advance, via tax.
If red necks think about it pensioners are not the problem.
If our well of wealthy say paid tax's we could get a living pension.
Now rechtub are you aware ,or hasbeen for that matter, how much workers contribute via superannuation?
Do you understand ow much was lost by Joe and jean average in the GFC?
Lost because of non tax paying rich adventuring with money they did not own.
I see that BBQ crowd in My mind rechtub brings the snags Wilson Tucky the cook.
Bronwyn Bishop sings, Abbot standing in front of the mirror.
And out the back Malcolm Turnbull desperately trying to show them this mornings polling.
By the way I contribute 20% of my wages to try to live without a pension superannuation if used well is the best hope for a future for pensioners.

Belly; >>Now rechtub are you aware ,or hasbeen for that matter, how much workers contribute via superannuation?

Well, in fact, I would suggest very little on a grand scale. Most super is from employer contributions and we all know that a mere 9% saved each year, assumming they remain employed, will not cut the mustard.

>>Do you understand ow much was lost by Joe and jean average in the GFC?

Yes, but are you aware that in many cases the very reason they contributed to super in the first place was to offset their income taxes.

Now if you take the gamble, you must also accept the risk.

The fact remains that the system is wrong.

I am approaching 50. Now if I were to retire at 55, cash in my super, sell all my assetts and go on a 'spending spree', holiday here and there, become a ;grey nomad' and swap my house for a traveling rig and unlimately spend every cent before I turn (67 now), I would be eligible for the full pension.

Yet, if I was wise and retain my assett base to become 'self suficient' then I would receive very little assistance what so ever and, I would spend countless hours trying to prove my financial position, esspecially if I was on the 'edge'.

Most self funder retirees will tell you that they don't care about the pension, they simply want the perks of retirement, health care card, discounted scipts, discounted rates etc. Now what is so wrong about that?

I say again, they must stop rewarding the 'under achievers' at the expense of the 'achievers'.

rehctub
It is nice to be able to agree with you for a change :).

We made a big mistake, IMO, when we handed over the security of our retirement so completely to the private sector.

Perhaps a medicare type levy for a guaranteed secure pension on retirement and private super companies providing second optional extras should people wish to top up the pot.

There is an unbelievable amount of waste in government that could also be directed to pensioners now. Over the years the APS has become so top heavy with budget cuts affecting mainly those in the lower ranks who provide real services to people in the community.

We have so many managers managing at every tier or oversighting that the real work and services are not being done properly through lack of resources - we have more people managing than doing. This is not to minimise the importance of effective management, merely lamenting the growth in overmanagement and creation of jobs to create the image of doing something than really doing something.