Bazz (cont)

You've been born lucky, Bazz. We all have. What gives any of us the right to consign others to certain misery and probable death, while we live the high life built on resources very often plundered from the same countries these people can no longer live in?

Yes, Bazz, you worry about that big ship. Meanwhile, I'll worry about the real issues of fairness and justice.

Ludwig

<< Surely Bronwyn you can appreciate my point that if the scale of arrivals was considerably larger than it currently is, compared to what it would be if Howard's policy remained in place, then the rate of mishap would be considerably greater. >>

No, I can't, because it's a false assumption. I agree a few more might lose their lives in risky boat journeys, but not the numbers you're suggesting.

When faced with the option of risking an arduous journey at sea or spending years in a detention centre or refugee camp, which is their only other option, asylum seekers choose as you or I would to take the risk. A few might drown, but they drown with hope in their hearts. Your ‘stop the boats’ alternative means that all will experience a slow dying process as they wait neglected and forgotten in some hellhole detention centre. Besides, your alternative involves turning boats around which is also high risk and has already resulted in many deaths.

<< When Howard tightened up border-protection policy, this is exactly what he did; he accommodated those caught in the middle, while upholding the vitally important deterrence factor. >>

Tell me, Ludwig, how did he 'accommodate those caught in the middle'? He locked them up indefinitely or refouled them back to danger. There weren't any other options. Stop using false and innocuous-sounding euphemisms. He did not 'accommodate' them at all. He inflicted enormous hardship and suffering on people who had already suffered more than you or I could ever imagine.

TBC (at some later stage)

Just a word of support for Bronwyn, who seems to be about the only recent participant in this thread who I'd want as a neigbour.

The rest of you seem to be doing little more than engaging in paranoid "what if" fantasies, that reflect more upon your own miserable and fearful existences than the reality of a relative handful of 'boat people' who manage, against all odds, to legally claim asylum in Australia.

Ludwig - I haven't "run away" from anything. Rather, I simply couldn't be bothered again pandering to your ego by playing hateful games with you and the excuses for humanity you apparently like to attract.

We've answered all your questions time and again. You just don't like the answers, so you keep on rehashing your paranoid and misanthropic tripe - knowing, of course, that there is an unfortunate audience at OLO who will chime in every time you blow your dog-whistle.

On this subject, both you and they suck - bigtime.

*I'll worry about the real issues of fairness and justice.*

If you worried about the real issues of fairness and justice Bronwyn,
your focus would be on all of them and how available funds are spent
to help as many as possible, not just focus on the fortunate few,
many of whom find this all a great excuse for a cushy life in the
West. Your focus would be on those with nothing, stuck in camps.
Clearly its not.

Fact is the answer is not to move them all to the West, but to sort
out problems in their home countries and those countries that adjoin
them. Millions of Afghans returned to Afghanistan, once the Taliban
were overpowered. Iraq is slowly returning to some kind of normality,
20 million live there and manage, even if not at your
standard of cushy lifestyle.

Millions of Mexicans and Africans don't head north for political
reasons, but for financial reasons. They want to make a quid.
They are desperate to make a quid!

So the fact remains that most refugees in fact can return to their
home countries, once things have calmed down and are sorted out.

By your logic, if Australia was a warzone, we should all flee
somewhere else. Not friggin likely apart from a few cowards. Most
people stay to improve their country, as did the British, as did
the Germans, as did people in most nations who have gone to war.

Bronwyn,
It is not fanciful that large ships could be used. It has been done a
number of times in the Mediterranean.
It seems to me to be the next logical step in the people smuggling
industry.
Look at it as business, they have an almost unlimited potential clientel.
The navy can easily track the small fishing boats and recognise them for what they are.
A registed ship on a voyage and with a declared cargo and course would
be seen as just another tramp steamer. A flyover would not see the
passengers inside or in the hold.

The profit for the voyage would be much greater.
The crew could hold Australian visas and leave the ship in a boat
and come ashore and be aboard an aircraft before anyone was aware
as to what was going on.
The owner would have all the worry and expense in regaining the
ship and would never find the charter crew.

It has been done before and it is the next logical part of the
business plan.
I know it sounds fanciful but the government would be remiss for
not taking it into account, but then politicians will not talk
about uncomfortable problems except global warming where there are
votes in it for them.

"Not friggin likely, apart from a few cowards"? Are you serious?
If my family were endangered by an outbreak of war around my home, I would regard it as number one priority, to get my family to safety.
BTW, if my children were on a sinking boat, the first thing I would do, is THROW THEM OVERBOARD!
With life preservers, or at least flotsam, if nothing else were available.
You might consider risking or sacrificing your family's lives courageous and noble, Yabby, but I beg to differ.

And here’s a sports update for those who have just joined us :

In the first match of the day, Yabby defeated Bronwyn 6-0, 6-0, 6-0.
In that match Bronwyn foot faulted a number of times –each time her foot was squarely in her mouth.
---“There's no fairness in confining refugees to waiting helplessly in squalid and overcrowded refugee camps.” --- but strangely enough, if OZ let’s 30, 000 it will somehow be all OK!
----“Experience elsewhere indicates little or no risk of absconding”
---“Cairo” is not a signatory --country --! to the refugee convention.

Now in the reverse rubber, Ludwig’s currently leading Bronwyn 6-0 ,6-0 , 5-0 and is serving for the match.
Bronwyn is battling on , though she has had a few Venus Williams moments .

And, for those who missed last nights results :
CJ Morgan did a John McEnroe and stormed off the court
--- “[Ludwig’s] scurrilous 'dog-whistle' comment… the odious Liberal MP …a few of our usual mutts have responded… spewing out a litany of lies…..wingnut radio shock jocks…Banjo's hateful drivel is classic … Ludwig should be thoroughly ashamed of himself - as should Horus's haters…Ludwig's scurrilous dog whistle…Speaking of whom - I don't think I'll be engaging with the old misanthrope much any more after these latest antics”.

Examinator, well, he hit a couple of good shots
---“It's time for Australia to face the facts we have Party governments in this country and it is their collectively agreed policies that are at issue no the personalities per se.”
And, one good ace
---“True the risk of boating people here is unacceptable exploitism”
but was later disqualified for prolonged examinating of his ace, on court.

More updates later in the bulletin .
…………………………………..

CJ Morgan
Re “We've answered all your questions time and again” --In your dreams!.