* but I sleep better knowing you're a long way away just the same. :)*

ROFL Bronwyn, many thanks for the compliments! We know what you
emotionally engulfed types are really like, you can't help yourselves
as you rush off to follow your feelings.

So knowing that there is a continent between us, as you perhaps
could not help yourself, must be comforting for you :)

FYI it doesent work, I've had many advances from emotionally
engulfed females and I simply don't have the patience, they drive
me frigging nuts.

Back to the topic. Given limited resources, its interesting that
my proposal would be the most cost effective, so help the maximum
number of refugees in a manner that treats then all equally and it
would not discriminate between men and women.

Neither you nor CJ have been able to show the same, but then
wearing your heart on your sleeve is hardly about reasoning about
emotions, more like simply following your feelings, however
irrational.

Bronwyn

Just to let you know your efforts are not wasted, I admire the rational and reasoned way you have presented the facts regarding people seeking refuge, both here in Australia and overseas. All I could offer would be the same facts. Rest assured while Ludwig, Yabby et al continue to wax hysterical over a tiny percentage of boat people and actively wish them harm, is evident to any reader of OLO pages.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/survivors-of-boat-explosion-granted-refugee-status-20091011-gsdx.html

" ALL 42 Afghan asylum seekers who survived the explosion and fire on their vessel off Ashmore Reef in April will be granted refugee status.

It is understood that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship will grant permanent protection visas to the 42 this week.

Officials say the asylum seekers' claims for refuge were thoroughly examined and all had rigorous health, security and identity checks. ''The granting of protection visas will help the group, who have undergone a traumatic ordeal, to settle in the community and recover their physical and mental health,'' they said. "

All 42 people: men, women and children are genuine refugees. The OLO misanthrope brigade would better expend their energies on those people who do rort the student visa system. But picking on the defenceless has always been the mark of bullies.

Personally Bronwyn, I'm inclined to suggest you don't cast your pearls before swine.
I don't think I will ever get over my amazement, that so many sons and daughters of ANZACS should be so panty wetting terrified of a handful of refugees in leaky boats.
What happened to simple good manners? Where I come from, if someone's in trouble the first -and generally only- question you hear is:
"are you right there, mate?"

*while Ludwig, Yabby et al continue to wax hysterical over a tiny percentage of boat people and actively wish them harm, is evident to any reader of OLO pages.*

Hang on, hang on Fraccy dear. No hysteria anywhere, simply
highlighting the irrational claims of the "hearts on our sleeves"
brigade.

Its only those people in front of your noses, moneyed and highly
likely economic refugees, that you mob get your knickers in a knot
over. Never mind the tens of millions in refugee camps, never
mind women and children and the fact that most claimed refugees are
men, who seemingly had no problem leaving their families, in what
we are told is highlyl likely death!

Unlike you, I dislike Australia being taken for a sucker, just
because we have some very gullible people in our community.

*All 42 people: men, women and children are genuine refugees.*

We don't know that. But they were given asylum due to the trauma
that they experienced. None of them are saying as to who actually
blew up the boat.

Re: CJ’s suck-up “Bronwyn, you have the patience of a saint… for summarising so well the reasons”
LOL
I’d characterised Bronwyn’s style as less like a saint than a punch-drunk boxer, who keeps swinging away throwing punches, few of which actually land, with little cognisance of what’s going on.

Re: CJ’s delusions “I'm not inclined to reiterate the same arguments every time some mendacious misanthrope blows his dog whistle at OLO”
ROFL
CJ reminds me of some General Gordon era character who’s on his last legs and spends his time reminiscing about great, heroic deeds he’s done in his younger days – deeds, which strangely enough, no one else can recall!


Yabby,
Agreed it was a very good coverage in the Saturday Australian, I found the testimony of the (token) rejectees who expressed their despair/fear at the prospect of being returned to Sri Lanka, particularly insightful.

Some poor souls talked of being traumatised by the resultant loss-of-face : when they departed their neighbours expected them to come into money & a big house in OZ, they had lost face (not to mention, prime marriage prospects ) by return from OZ empty-handed — brought tears to my eyes!

But then again , I guess they needn’t despair, many, many ‘refugees” have had to lodge their claim three or more times before finding someone who’d rubber stamp it.If at first you don’t succeed try, try, and try again, change your name , change your place of origin , change your family relationships , change your sex… change your carrier!

Grim & Bronwyn,
Oh how remiss of me –you two haven’t been properly introduced.
Bronwyn this is Grim.
Grim this is Bronwyn, she is very fond of you and your brothers publications –actually, she gets most of her ‘facts’ from your most famous publication.

Thanks Bronwyn for your four-post response.

"I said I UNDERSTOOD the deterrence logic. I didn't say I agreed with it."

Dear oh dear. Just when I thought we were getting somewhere! This means that the key question, that I've tried many times to have answered, remains unanswered.

That is:

How on earth do we treat asylum seekers in the manner that you desire without spurring a large, if not massive, increase in the number of arrivals, with the consequent hardening of attitudes against them, followed by the hardening of policy?

"I've made it clear all along that deterrence can't be achieved without inflicting unacceptable levels of cruelty and death upon people seeking our assistance."

Well I think it is time for me to stop trying to argue this point and just say that I vehemently disagree with this basic premise.

The opposite is true - if we facilitate a considerably larger number of arrivals, then we will be facilitating a much larger rate of mishap and death, as well as an inevitable hardening of policy against asylum seekers which will inevitably mean a lower quality of treament.

"The Rudd Government is currently embarking on a huge advertising blitz in Sri Lanka.... This is as much deterrence as I can stomach and even this leaves me cold."

Holy Moses Bronwyn! You don't even support this sort of action! I am surprised! I've got to conclude that you really do just want entirely open Australian borders and free movement to whoever wants to come here, regardless of numbers!

As for Rudd's Sri Lankan effort; at least it is something proactive. But it has multiple problems.

Firstly, it may be just as likely to make people aware of the possibility of paying boat-operators (people smugglers) to take them to Australia, where they hadn't thought of that possibility before. It may indeed worsen things. Maybe not. But the results of this initiative are very uncertain.

Secondly, it flies in the face of Rudd's policy of improving the facilitation of onshore asylum seekers by watering down the border-protection policy.

continued