Drugs, crime, incivility, binge drinking, teenage pregnancies, anti-social behaviour and institutional racism are common part of life in the modern Britain. Muslim do not want their children to become integrated into such barbarity.

Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state schools with monolingual teachers are not capable to teach English language to bilingual Muslim children. The grow up to be angry young men becuse the schols were reluctant to teach Arabic, Urdu and other community languages.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or ateacher in a Muslim school. They need to be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They also need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion,all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/She does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brits.
Iftikhar Ahmad
London School of Islamics Trust
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

The best way to ensure that Muslim children, or those of any other religious or ethnic group, will grow up feeling included and valued in the society in which they live is to have them educated within a strong and universal public education system.

Private and/or religious schools only perpetuate difference and division. They do nothing to promote a fair and harmonious society.

I had felt this gentleman had graced the halls of the OLO forum before and indeed he has, putting exactly the same position but not responding to any posts.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2819&page=0#63914

It may well be that people have something new to add but it would be worth reading the earlier discussion first.

Britain's rejection of God has led to this ridiculous and sad situation. They embraced the me god (secularism) and multi culturalism and are now faced with being over run by Muslims. I am sure future generations of children are going to thank the misguided policy makers when they are forced to wear burkas. The silence of feminism is astounding. I think wearing the pants will be the last thing woman will be concerned about under Sharia Law.

csteele,
Thanks for the link. This is the second time this poster has put up the same post so I take it as part of the continuing aim to further the influence of Islam in Western countries. I expect our friend Kayser Trad to again raise the issue of polygamy again shortly.

If the poster was genuinely concerned with a problem for muslims in the UK, he would restrict his postings to that country.

"One day millions of men will leave Arabia to go to Europe. And they will not go there as friends. They will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."former Algerian president Houari Boumedienne in about 1975.

The UK and Europe ignored this statement, to their detriment, and now have massive problems brought on by multiculturalism and bad migration policy. For example each public holiday in France is marked by riots and car burning. Last new years eve they burnt 1147 cars in France and the authorities were pleased it was not more. By 2015, Sweden will be 50% muslim, and that is not far off.

The UK already has limited polygamy and some aspects of Sharia law has been introduced. There is widespread FGM and estimated 3000 forced marriages each year.

Many muslims see themselves as pioneers for Islam as our forebears did in Aus. We can expect continuing presure to adopt muslim cultural ways and even more so as their numbers grow.

If the issue is only about education then i agree with Bronwyn.

" ... Private and/or religious schools only perpetuate difference and division. They do nothing to promote a fair and harmonious society. ... "

Couldn't agree more:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/comlaw.nsf/0/19541afd497bc2e4ca256f990081e2cf/$FILE/Constitution.pdf

Commonwealth of Australia
Constitution Act

Chapter V – The States

116 Commonwealth not to legislate in respect of religion

The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion,
or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free
exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a
qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

..

What we need is a law prohibiting the indoctrination of children but I suspect s116 may need to be reconstructed.

What a crock, Iftikhar.
If muslims don't want their children to integrate, they should have stayed where they came from. Why would they want to move to a country of 'such barbarity' anyway? As for barbarity, who are the suicide bombers? Brits or muslims?
If Brits emigrated to your country of origin, would the government set up state-funded schools for them? Or would they be doomed to 'grow up to be angry young men'? 'Arabic, Urdu and other community languages' are not the language of Britain just as English is not the language of the Middle East.
To make it worse, you make the inflammatory statement that 'There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school'. So you want the Brits to fund your schools but stay out. Is that so that they don't witness your classes such as Jihad 101?
It's people with your twisted, one-sided opinions that are causing the divide to grow.
Finally, you mentioned teenage pregnancies. Is that caused by Brit girls being raped by muslims, as seems to happen there quite frequently?

I was at the Australian Consulate in Bali recently. They have "new" premises. Inside the grounds is a memorial shrine devoted to the victims. It is all very nice except in one regard. It has a dirty great wooden cross at the head.

Now in Bali in certain areas we have something of a cultural/religious melting pot, predominately Christian, Bali Hindu and Indo Islamism. (and of course those of the secular/agnostic persuasion though we rarely dare to admit to not having a religion in fanatical Idonesia)

And verily, we have all these people in and out of the consulate so why it was chosen to alienate some of them from the shrine is deeply dissapointing.

I think in principal we see the embodiment of this problem in the distilled essence of both the thread originator and also in the likes of Runner, both of whom seem equally convinced of the validity of their own God concepts and worse still their right to impose it on everyone else. Just grubby politicians who seek to subjugate others under the guise of Spirituality.

Is this author for real? First you denigrate the citizens of the country you live in (or only the white non-Muslim ones) and then ask them to fund your schools. Not a good tactic for wining friends and influencing people.

Britain seems to be doing quite well despite all this crime and binge-drinking and is not in fear of civil collapse anytime soon. Sure there are areas that require attention particularly in relation to social problems but to paint it in such a doomsday light is disingenuous.

Is this author claiming there is no crime, drinking or violence in Muslim countries. Stoning women for not wearing appropriate clothing would be seen as barbaric by those living in Britain who enjoy greater democratic freedoms.

Why would you choose to emigrate to a nation that you so despise?

Why should taxpayers pay for Muslim government schools - the whole idea of a universal public education system is equal access to high quality (hopefully) education without discrimination.

Why should Christian and other religious schools have to fund their own way, with some assistance from government, but not Muslim schools?

Aah alas *Austin* but not just Brit girls, but also their own.

Whilst not a statistically representative sample, the amount of girls I have met in Islamic Indonesia with cigarette burns and knife cuts on their arms and legs for refusing to consent to their husbands taking another wife, most often during the time when they were pregnant and not able to have sexual relations, and also usually when the husband can't even afford to feed his first wife .. the mind boggles.

Often these girls get relegated to being sent to Bali and sold to tourists, a still prolific practice in places like Kuta and Sanur.

But then as of last I saw, "us and our military allies" were still "docking" at notorious places like Pattaya Thailand, one huge whore house on the beach, and taking advantage of gorgeous young females fresh out the rice paddies with no other financial security solution to contribute to the care of their impoverished families.

And so as not to be hypocrytical, I admit that in my past that I too have done more than one "under the covers" mission.

Alas to be an attractive woman in some parts of the world.

Dog whistles at the ready.... go!

And Banjo is out of the traps, racing away into the distance...

>>By 2015, Sweden will be 50% muslim, and that is not far off<<

Where on earth did you dig that one up, pal?

http://www.eumap.org/topics/minority/reports/eumuslims/background_reports/download/sweden/swe_exec

Strewth, the way you guys bang on about how the world is about to be taken over by Saracen hordes, you'd think we were back in the twelfth century.

And along the same lines...

>>Last new years eve they burnt 1147 cars in France<<

...who are "they"?

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1869392,00.html

You seem to want us to believe that Muslims are responsible. You have no evidence of course, so you have to rely on insinuation.

We've been here before, haven't we.

>>The UK already has limited polygamy and some aspects of Sharia law has been introduced<<

Garbage.

Polygamy is illegal.

Folks who arrive in the country in this state are not prosecuted for it, however, nor are they told to divorce the surplus. But they can't register more than one.

Sharia law has not been introduced.

Sharia tribunals are allowed however - as they are in the US - and are similar to the Jewish Beth Din.

http://www.almendron.com/tribuna/25707/sharia-across-the-pond/

It is paranoia-driven propaganda that you are regurgitating here, and you should be ashamed of yourself for pretending otherwise.

>>Many muslims see themselves as pioneers for Islam as our forebears did in Aus.<<

Your forebears were pioneers for Islam?

How odd.

The original post is simply an international troll, and should be comprehensively ignored.

Sadly, it stirs up the xenophobes and whack-a-mozzies.

" ... The original post is simply an international troll, and should be comprehensively ignored. ... "

I think that it is better to study such trolls *Pericles* for this one is likely representative and they reason not in the manner in which people here are generally accustomed.

..

If you don't mind I'll just go back to my tangent for a bit and convey something of what I have been led to believe by my "friend" and informer who works on the inside of the Bali mafia ring.

..

The girls are lured in by their own, who come cloaked in the respectability of the mosque, promising riches and a route out of poverty. Yes .. Islamic mafia rats .. and ones who make thousands of US$ per night when its their shift, are specifically unregistered by the local police and guvment authorities and who do regularly make trips unchecked back to Islamic Jawa with lots of black economy cash, to feather their own nests and of course donate to their sponsors.

Now to me, this has potential serious security implications.

I truly wonder, how far can I go?
I see the author as a bit cowardly, yes we have seen inflammatory posts like this here, but received no answers.
It is a fishing trip, baiting us is it not.
Or is it from some one not even Muslim?
It does not matter I could if I wished go on for days saying why I am concerned about SOME MUSLIMS.
But I will not bother, I will not however run away from those charges about our culture.
Nope second thoughts not worth the effort , but may I live to see women truly free in every country, children not brain washed and educated to hate.
And may some one please tell me if so much is wrong with the west why oh why do so many want to come here then tell us we live wrong?

We have been down this track before.

And I do suspect this guy could be a troll.

However, for the record - in this country
and I imagine in the UK - people have
choices as to what sort of an education
they want their children to receive.

If they want a specialised education -
that's their choice - they shouldn't however
expect others to pay for that privilege.
Public Schools are available to all.

The main cause of the fundamentalists'
hostility to not only the UK but the West
in general is that they fear the impact of
Western culture and political interference
in their societies. Fundamentalists look with horror
at what they perceive to be the West's
sexual permissiveness, at the relative
assertiveness and immodesty of the Western women, at
the high rates of illegitimacy, abortion, divorce,
pre-occupation with pleasure, drugs, alcohol,
pornography, material possessions and at the
search for self-fulfillment at the expense of
obligations to kin and community. They see our
society as a threat to the integrity and
traditions of theirs.

However, they must realise that they are
living in a Western country by their own
choice. The only demand they have any right to make
is to be treated equally along with the rest of the
country's citizens. They are not entitled to any special
privileges.

Gee Pericles, haven't you heard of the muslim youth rioters in France burning cars? You really should catch up. Its been going on for ages.

It has been widely reported that 1147 cars were burnt by rioters in France last New Years Eve. 'They' are muslim youth.

You will be pleased to read that not so many were burnt prior to this Bastille Day, only 500 which is not quite double from 2008.

Quote the National Post (Canada) 15-7-09.
'In Lyon, another city with a significant immigrant population, Le Progrès had the pleasure of quoting the interior ministry spokesman as he ate his words: officially, 500 cars were burned on the night of July 13-14, compared with 297 in the same period last year'.

Of course the French authorities like to keep this quiet. Like the UK government kept it quiet about making provision for welfare payments for an additional wife if they had married in a country that approved such. Our own government says nothing about forced marriages or FGM.

Problems in relation to Islam are reported regularly from most European countries. What about the death threats of Ruskee or the Danish cartoons issue. Closer to home, in the last few days it has been reported that laws now allow adulterers to be stoned to death in the province of Aceh, Indonesia.

The author of this thread is simply pushing the aims of Islam and cannot be ignored. If western culture is so bad muslims need not stay.
Take a look at this blokes website and see how he blames the victim of an honour killing. Her fault for not being muslim enough!

We must always be aware of and oppose alien threats to our culture and way of life.

This is probably a troll you are right.

Nothing sets the juices going more than a sense of religious superiority no matter the brand.

I was absolutely gobsmacked to read this post!

These sort of religious fanatics really frighten me at times.
Even Runner was upset with this guys rantings!

As a woman, I would fight with everything I had to prevent sharia law having anything to do with me or mine.

What is a troll anyway?

Cheers, Sue.

Okay lets shoot the messenger,

From whois we find the address of the so called London school of Islamics is 63 Margery Park Road, London.

Googling 63 Margery Park Road brings up the London School Of Islamic Psychotherapy

With google maps street view it appears to be just white, rather nondescript house with no signage.

From the website the ‘Aims of The London School of Islamics Trust’
1. The aim is to make British public, institutions and media aware of the issues of the Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions.
2. To help with social, personal, emotional and educational issues and problems.
3. To provide marriage guidance and counselling.
4. To find divorcees, widowers and disabled persons partners for marriage.

Various blogs report this guy is a serial spammer of discussion boards/forums. One blogger writes “From what I can gather the London School of Islamics ceased to be a school in the 1980s, and now appears to be little more than a one-man lobby demanding public funds for Muslim schools.”

Well no harm in trying I suppose.

Islam isn’t the sickness. It is the cure. It is one of liberty and equality. Secularists and followers of other religions regard Islam with something approaching panic. It is wrong to say that Islam has turned Osama bin Laden into a devil. It is the Secularist Western policies have turned Osama and others against the West. The world needs Islam to address the moral issues. America and Europe are wealthy, but they are morally impoverished. Broken families, drugs, booze, youth gangs, crime, neglect of children and the old, the sheer boredom of shopaholicism, terrorism, the inner-cities slums, materialism itself, are all the marks of a global society in decline. Children need to be taught to distinguish between right and wrong.



Ask these hypocrites this question. " How many Fillipinos or Vietnamese go to Mudersah to realise the existence of European terrorism. The European terrorism and subsequent colonialism was inintiated, in modern times, by the Spanish terrorists some 400 years ago. Their immoral gain, the loot of gold, used to be intercepted by a British pirate called Sir Francis Drake. This gave other European nations including the British the hint to start the soulless but lucrative trade of murdering and robbing other nations to get rich quick.

Iftikhar

Those of the Muslim faith are, generally, not native to Britain, which is a nominal Protestant nation, known for its religious tolerance to accept Catholics, Jews and other multiple denominations.

So if Muslims find life there so intolerable, then maybe the best option for Muslims is to return to the country of their origin or some other fabled land of Muslim delight, where they are free to terrorise and organize into criminal conspiracies in pursuit of seditious enterprises and martyrdom and leave the poor old Brits to wallow in whatever it is that the disgruntled Muslims thought they wanted to share in when they migrated to UK.

And maybe all the Muslims with similar feelings who clamber onto worn out Indonesian fishing boats to illegally invade Australia and then find it not to their particular liking should do the same.

Of course, the alternative would be for all the Muslims to do as many other new arrivals have done, practice the old saying “when visiting Rome… do as the Romans do”, shave off their beards, throw off their hijabs, convert to Christianity and assimilate into the wider community, instead of locking themselves into Muslim ghettos and demanding status as a mini-Muslim state.

Iftikhar “Islam isn’t the sickness. It is the cure.”

If that were so… why do so many Muslims choose to live in a Christian Britain, when they could just as easily find a Muslim country to live in?

As for relating Muslim terrorists to events which happened 500 years ago, pathetic, Things have moved on from the days of the “divine right of Kings”. It is as relevant as commenting upon the Turkish occupation of modern Greece, Hungary and the Baltic countries.

And I am informed most of the patrons of northern Melbourne brothels are Muslim men, Lebanese Muslim gangs run riot in Sydney, many women wear burkahs to hide the bruises from the beatings they get from their husbands and young women are still sold into arranged marriages by their fathers, although it is against Australian law.

Islam is no more a cure than Roman Catholicism is.

You can stop the bluster, Banjo.

You have been caught, fair and square, repeating rumours and scuttlebutt.

>>It has been widely reported that 1147 cars were burnt by rioters in France last New Years Eve. 'They' are muslim youth.<<

Hey, I even provided a link to the news article for you to read, the one that used exactly the same number. It's title was "France's New Year's Tradition: Car-Burning"

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1869392,00.html

Have a read of it. Hopefully it isn't too long for your concentration span.

Count the number of times it refers to Muslims or Islam.

Grand total: zero.

But you appear to know that "muslim youth" was responsible. Do you have any source for this, or did you simply invent it?

Or is it in that special category, something that "everybody knows"?

Just like everybody knows that "by 2015, Sweden will be 50% muslim"

>>We must always be aware of and oppose alien threats to our culture and way of life.<<

Thanks for reminding me.

Is tolerance part of our culture and way of life?

Or is bigotry?

Don't worry Iftikhar Ahmad, on demographic trends, the Muslim's will rule Britain soon enough. And I can't wait to see the faces of the white liberals and feminists when they realise Sharia Law doesn't allow them the freedoms they're use to.

This is why we call liberalism a suicidal Worldview.

Ya'll postin' in a troll thread.

I very much doubt the OP is a Muslim of any stripe, but a garden-variety white supremacist indulging in some propaganda. Good of Banjo to help out, and even better of Pericles to eviscerate him for our entertainment.

Sancho

<< I very much doubt the OP is a Muslim of any stripe, but a garden-variety white supremacist indulging in some propaganda. >>

I don't often disagree with you, Sancho, but I do here. :)

On reading Iftikhar's three posts to OLO, I see an authentic and consistent view emerging. Like it or not, Iftikhar's view is one which is widely held and one which I think we should engage with in a calm and rational manner.

Iftikhar

<< America and Europe are wealthy, but they are morally impoverished. Broken families, drugs, booze, youth gangs, crime, neglect of children and the old, the sheer boredom of shopaholicism, terrorism, the inner-cities slums, materialism itself, are all the marks of a global society in decline. >>

I agree with aspects of your assessment of modern western society. To me though it is far too simplistic to think that adherence to Islam, Christianity or any other religion is the answer to our problems. Trying to impose any religious order on any advanced democracy will never work.

Besides, religions do not have a monopoly on what is good in this world. There are many atheists and others who pay no more than nominal homage to religion who treat others by the Golden Rule and do far more good in the world than those who are openly religious.

I think a lot of the problems concerning you, and many in the West as well by the way, relate to the relentless pace of living and the huge and growing disparities in wealth and privilege inherent in modern western economies. People who struggle to support themselves and who feel marginalized from the mainstream will very understandably seek to numb their pain and to lash out in anti-social ways. Given the growing numbers of people in this situation, it is no wonder we're facing the problems you've outlined.

Giving people the skills and the assistance to participate fairly in society will do far more to eliminate these problems than religious indoctrination ever will.

I am afraid he is real I have looked at csteels research he exists.
But we have nothing to fear from him, its the soft amung us I fear more.
Blind to the fact we must confront those who use our freedoms against us.
And who would take them away if they could.
Rubbish about freedom to believe in what you want is a western idea not theirs read the holly book this bloke Carry's .
We will because we must, confront radical Islam sooner rather than later.
See Banjo, told you we agree, sometimes at least.

Miss Bronwyn,
I think you have been rather harsh in your marking of Iftikhar’s essay.

You deducted marks saying : “Trying to impose any religious order on any advanced democracy will never work”
But Ify made no such suggestion – rather I suspect he was seeking to work within democracy –availing of a slow demographic creep. Aided and abetted by our bleeding heart immigration policy – including those ILLEGALs arriving daily on our northern shore! (Some say that such will never contribute to substantial demographic change –and I hope they’re right).

Next, you need to take into account that Ify is likely a convert to Islam, or a Muslim raised in the West, as:
1--He makes the mistake of assuming Osama is –exclusively– a Western boogie man.
2--He lists the usually litany of woes which he posits as sins endemic to the West.
Had he lived in a Muslim society, he would have no such utopian delusions .
3--And then he says, and this seals it -- “ How many Fillipinos or Vietnamese go to Mudersah to realise the existence of European terrorism…and subsequent colonialism was inintiated,.. the Spanish terrorists some 400 years ago… immoral gain, the loot of gold…” This is standard leftist teacher lecture material – he’s clearly been educated in one of our mainstream Western schools ( he’s not a repeat student from your last years class, by chance?)

And finally, your summing up comment could mislead Ify :“growing disparities in wealth and privilege inherent in modern western economies. People who struggle to support themselves and who feel marginalized from the mainstream will very understandably seek to numb their pain and to lash out in anti-social ways.”

Many of the terrorists that Ify idolizes were successful professional persons.So wealth it would seem is not always a good measure of marginalization/stupidity.

Next time Ify writes such and essay, I suggest you send him to do some deeper reading of history. A good starting point might be “The History of the World” in thirteen volumes – by Horus & Horus. –unfair criticism will only marginalize him

Horus

<< You deducted marks saying : “Trying to impose any religious order on any advanced democracy will never work”
But Ify made no such suggestion – rather I suspect he was seeking to work within democracy –availing of a slow demographic creep. >>

Either way, it's still an imposition. My point stands.

<< Aided and abetted by our bleeding heart immigration policy – including those ILLEGALs arriving daily on our northern shore! >>

They're asylum seekers, NOT illegals. It is NOT illegal to seek asylum. Please get your facts straight.

<< Next, you need to take into account that Ify is likely a convert to Islam, or a Muslim raised in the West .. >>

That's irrelevant. I'm engaging with the views Iftikhar's expressed here on OLO. I don't care where he was educated or where he lives. It in no way affects the points he's making here.

<< He makes the mistake of assuming Osama is –exclusively– a Western boogie man. >>

There's no evidence supporting that in any of his posts. You've read that into his words yourself, and quite wrongly. And again, it's irrelevant to the point he was making anyway.

<< Many of the terrorists that Ify idolizes were successful professional persons. >>

More false reading between the lines on your part. There is nothing whatsoever in Iftikhar's posts to suggest he idolizes terrorists.

This thread is an ideal opportunity to build some bridges and to try and gain an understanding of where the 'other' is coming from. But no, you are clearly demonstrating you're incapable of moving beyond the cheap shot and the ignorant equating of Islam and terrorism.

Why can't you try to engage fairly and objectively?

Bronwyn,

--“Either way, it's still an imposition. My point stands.”
Yes & No, if Ify’s (new) majority decide that they will stone offending artists , or outlaw pork, or impose a dimities tax on all non-believers, it may be a bit of an impost to those immoral secularists who yearn for the old days –but it would also be the LAW, approved by the majority.

--“They're asylum seekers, NOT illegals. It is NOT illegal to seek asylum. Please get your facts straight.”
No Bronwyn, you get YOUR ASSUMPTIONS straight. Under Australian Law –which after all is still the governing law in this domain -- it would seem that a person can be both an asylum seeker and an illegal immigrant –it’s not case of one or the other, but BOTH –more quantum than binary! http://www.aph.gov.au/library/Pubs/rp/2000-01/01rp05.htm

--“That's irrelevant… I don't care where he was educated or where he lives. It in no way affects the points he's making here.”
What sort of progressive are you –you don’t have a soft spot for minorities –shame!

--“< He makes the mistake of assuming Osama is –exclusively– a Western boogie man. >>
There's no evidence supporting that”
Yes there is – Ify notes that Osama has been alienated by the Western secularism --but doesn’t mention Osama is equally alienated by reformism & modernity in the Muslim world.

--“More false reading between the lines on your part. There is nothing whatsoever in Iftikhar's posts to suggest he idolizes terrorists.”
Consider the following :
i) The West is beset with “barbarity”.
ii) This barbarity results from secularism.
iii) Osama has been alienated by this secularism.
iv) Therefore, Osama (must) hold the high moral ground.

--“This thread is an ideal opportunity to build some bridges …”
I rather doubt that , remember his first post : “There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school”
If bridges are to be built I suspect -- to satisfy Ify-- the bridges would need to have pillboxes so he can guard & monitor who crosses .

Bronwyn I find myself on Horus side here.
It has been shown by another poster this bloke is at least educated in western ways.
The reason, in my view he came here was not to build bridges but to burn them down.
Boat people call them what you will, if you wish to call them refugees remember most would be economic ones.
Refugees do not often leave family's behind.
And like it or not we take enough in without giving Que jumpers a better deal, few Australians are pleased to see these people arrive then find fault as our thread starter is with our way of life.
As I said up the thread we are more challenged by those among us who refuse to understand than fools like the thread starter.

Belly

I agree, it seems at this stage as if Iftikhar was more interested in making a statement than in engaging in any ongoing discussion. Still, that's his perogative I guess.

<< Refugees do not often leave family's behind. >>

Not sure what your point here is exactly, but on the contrary, that's just what the majority of refugees are forced to do. Many can only scrape together enough money to pay the passage for one family member, many consider it easier and safer for one person to make their escape than for a whole family to attempt to do so, and many families are so badly war torn and so completely shattered that only one member has survived or is capable of making the trip.

<< Boat people call them what you will, if you wish to call them refugees remember most would be economic ones. >>

Again, on the contrary, the overwhelming majority of boat people who've come to Australia over the years have been proven to be genuine refugees, that is they've been proven to have a well founded fear of being killed if returned to their home country.

<< And like it or not we take enough in without giving Que jumpers a better deal, few Australians are pleased to see these people arrive then find fault as our thread starter is with our way of life. >>

There's no indication that Iftikhar is a refugee. The linkage you've attempted to make here between refugees and fault-finding is both unfair and inaccurate. In my experience, refugees are extremely grateful to be given a chance at resettlement and go out of their way to make the most of their new opportunities and to give back where they can.

I Bronwyn am aware we inhabit the left side of politics.
But can not change views I hold just to fit in.
Yes we get great migrants from every part of the world.
Yes including boat people/refugees.
However can we say only good people try to come?
Do you see in me a ranting right wing loony?
I think my concerns about bringing not multi cultures but a different stand alone culture to our country are well founded and shared by many.
This thread is from a trouble maker, uniformed maybe, but bent on insulting my culture .
I can find so very much that concerns me about such as him, on the streets of our city's.
Face it, we can not breed out the hate, note have that dream of multi cultures if some want only their culture and values not the country's they come to often without being invited.

Belly

<< I Bronwyn am aware we inhabit the left side of politics. But can not change views I hold just to fit in. >>

Yes, we both 'inhabit' the Left of politics, though as I've said to you before, you're a way to the Right of me on most issues. That's okay, the Left is a broad church. There will always be differences between those on the Green and Progressive Left and those like yourself on Labor's Right.

I understand where you're coming from and don't expect you to change your views. All I ask is that you treat the views of those further to your Left with the respect they deserve, which you mostly manage to do. :)

<< Do you see in me a ranting right wing loony? >>

No I don't. I see in you a good man with a good heart and a good mind. I always enjoy reading your posts. I do get exasperated with you at times, as I see you being very selective with your compassion. You have it in spades for children and the working class, but can come across very harshly when it comes to animals and refugees. You do at times keep company with the loony Right, as do I on the odd occasion, but I always see in you a more balanced and reasonable approach.

<< This thread is from a trouble maker, uninformed maybe, but bent on insulting my culture. >>

The insults, Belly, have been flying both ways. While you see Iftikhar's comments as uninformed, he I'm sure has exactly the same opinion of you. Don't you see the need for finding common ground and establishing sensible and civil dialogue?

Fighting fire with fire is just not the solution. Every time we take that approach - as in Iraq, Afghanistan, Abu Gharib, Guantanamo - we just further fan the flames of hatred and pour oil on the inferno threatening to engulf us all. We have to find another way and it's up to the more reasonable amongst us to take the lead.

Bronwyn before this post I re read the first one in this thread.
I often do, do you know I and just maybe you think the author is right about some things he wrote?
But do we want Islamic law to fix it?
I truly left the very left because I do honestly think they stand in the way of progress.
Standing with open arms ready to hug this bloke to your chest is madness.
What he and his type want to replace our culture with is a nightmare, true a horrible nightmare.
I think with all my heart we could fix drug over use if we wanted to.
That we could find a living wage and a job for every one, that Social security could be for the old infirm and true needy.
That people have a better life if they get a chance to earn it.
I believe slums can be cleared and homes built but I also know much more about city slums in this country and Europe that are self sustaining, and helped to stay slums by people like our author.
He not I said his people do not want to assimilate, in that case I ask that those who think that way never ever come to my country.

Belly

I fall in line with Bronwyn and her call to offer friendship rather than hostility.

I also know that my gut reaction to Iftikhar's opening post was the same as it is for Christians demanding separate schools, government funding and blaming all society's ills on non-Christians, or in this case non-Muslims; complete revulsion.

We try to communicate with Christians (which I know is difficult - I am thinking of Runner). Therefore, I agree with Bronwyn that we should apply the same approach to Muslims if we are ever to reach a level of mutual acceptance of each other. Assuming Iftikhar is a terrorist just because he is Muslim, is like assuming Runner is a terrorist because of his extreme religious views. I am already having second thoughts about that last sentence, but I am trying to make a point.

As Brownyn noted immediately following Iftikhar's post:

<< Private and/or religious schools only perpetuate difference and division. They do nothing to promote a fair and harmonious society. >>

That is the message we have to get across to all fundamental-religious people; that holding isolationist views due to religion is the cause of many of our problems and continues the hatred.

You would remember the old saying:

"Give a dog a bad name.....

I see Fractelle the goodness in what you and Bronwyn are saying.
And I understand we must and indeed do offer friendship and help to Muslim migrants.
I am not red neck, but this bloke concerns me.
He looks to me , well may be, a second generation Muslim in Britain.
He came here this time and at least one other to insult and provoke us.
Find another reason for this thread if you can.
Like it or not generations of men not unlike me, have had to take up arms to defend our freedoms.
Without shame I believe lies and deliberate lies are weapon for such as him.
If political correctness would let me I could tell a truly interesting story about young Muslims born here.
Let me tell you this much, I looked after them as union members , socialized with them, drank yes beer with them.
Saved their jobs, but within all 4 of them was a hatred for me and my country that I could never have forgiven.
Love and kindness will not stop a madman.

Hello *Ifti*

R u still there?

I am wondering, what kind of a *Muslim* r U?

R u a Soonee, a Shia, a NU .. a Mohomadia perhaps?
I don't know all the different kinds but you could share something of this with us if you wanted to couldn't you?

Do you like coffee, and Sheesha and like to hang out with the boyz & talk politics?

Well you did not get that answer bet it was no surprise.
Cowardly yes but not a surprise it well could have been a thread started by a racist trying to bring trouble.
But we knew it was from a real person.
One with a history of throwing verbal hand grenades and running away.