Fractelle
Can you change pope's mind? NO! Can you change Muslim religious leaders minds? NO! Can you do something to control berths in India? NO!
Do you expect religious power to decline or they will become stronger?
They will become stronger because people turn to churches and mosques when they have problems and they will have big problems!
Plus because the western progressive, people will become a small minority.
Fractelle I do not write what I like but what we can do, knowing that human population will increase in high degree. We need practical solusions of an avoitable HUGE problem.
The ecosystems are not very complex issues and we can understand their basics without special studies, you know the big shanges in our ecosystems from the dynosauros until our days.
Darwin's theory is an excelent tool to understand all the changes on the live beigns BUT we must understand that the Key word
" adapt" for humans have a slitly different meaning, and ITS MEANING WILL CHANGE AS HUMANS DISCOVER, USE AND TRANSFORM OUR WORLD.
Humans, Fractelle, do not ONLY adapt their environment BUT they transform it according to their needs and goals.
Humans, WILL SAVY ONLY IF THEY MAKE HUGE TRANSFORMS IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT, IF THEY CREATE AN ARTIFICIAL ENVIRONMENT WHICH WILL LINE WITH OUR GOALS, THE OVERPOPULATION PROBLEM IS THE BIGGEST ONE IN HUMAN HISTORY!
When we use the genetic engineering, when we plan to bring row materials from the space or colonize it, we speake for fast changes in our ecosystem or for a totaly new artificial system.

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Protagoras,
My apologies I missed the valid point...I'll go stand in the corner in shame.....
I'm back now... and I agree within limitations we haven't cocked it up totally yet but on the roof of my house and with a pair of binoculars you can see it coming.

*Can you change pope's mind? NO! Can you change Muslim religious leaders minds? NO! Can you do something to control berths in India? NO!*

Antonious, I really think that you completely miss the real point
of this argument. If you keep producing more food to feed more
people, then you will need even more food to feed even more people,
etc. The problem keeps compounding itself into an even greater problem,
until the whole thing eventually collapses one way or
another. That it is exactly what Darwin's Origin of Species predicts
and its absolutely correct, if you stop to think about it.

So you are not proposing any solutions at all, but simply dragging
out the inevitable and increasing the problem for the future.

The pope might not change his mind, but we know that his followers
will ignore him on this matter, when given the option. Look at the
birthrate in Italy! So the real problem is that many women in the
third world don't have the choice that Italian women have. We should
give them that choice.

As for Islam, you are once again not correct. There is a huge
movement in places like Pakistan, which recognises that as food
costs increase and poverty rises, that family planning is a pretty
sensible way to deal with it. There is nothing in the Koran to
say that they cannot. So the preachings of some Islamic leaders
are not as inflexible, as that of the Catholic Church.

Once again Antonious, think about it. The more food that you send,
without family planning, the more babies you will have to feed
in the future. We need a solution, not an increasing problem.

The solution is to empower third world women to make choices about
how many kids they have, something that hundreds of millions don't
have right now.

Protagoras
Land use - arable land(%) 2006
Data source: 2006 CIA World Factbook
Chile 2.62
Norway 2.70
Egypt: 2.92%
Sweden: 5.93%
Australia: 6.15%
Brazil: 6.93%
China: 14.86%
United States 18.01
http://www.photius.com/rankings/geography/land_use_arable_land_2006_0.html

In 2006, there was 1.15 acres of arable land per person, world-wide (i.e. 7.68 billion acres / 6.68 billion people).
By 2039, there may be only 0.59 acres of arable land per person, world-wide (i.e. 7.68 billion acres / 13 billion people).
However, arable land is being lost at the alarming rate of over 38,610 square miles (24.7 million acres) per year.
Therefore, by 2039, there may be only 0.53 acres of arable land per person, world-wide (i.e. 6.865 billion acres / 13 billion people).
http://one-simple-idea.com/Environment1.htm

By 2050, India and Nigeria would cultivate 0.06 hectares of grain-land for each person, less than one tenth the size of a soccer field. China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Ethiopia would drop even lower, to 0.04-0.05 hectares of grain-land per person. Faring worse would be Egypt and Afghanistan with 0.02 hectares, as well as Yemen, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Uganda with just 0.01 hectares
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_26-1-2003_pg7_44

Protagoras, woke up my friend, big problems! let's produce more food for them and keep them far of our country, let's use all our land including our deserts!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Yabby
"The solution is to empower third world women to make choices about
how many kids they have, something that hundreds of millions don't
have right now"
The problem is that we can npot change people's minds, especialy religious people's mind, especialy when the representaves of their god bring the messege from their god that bert control is not allowed from their god.
We have to wait many centuries for popes to bring new messeges from the god BUT WE CAN IMPROVE THE AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTIVITY, WE CAN USE MORE AND MORE LAND FOR MORE FOOD.
I wrote many times I do not write what I like but we can do to support humanity in its difficult times of cause the food sortage.
We have plenty land plenty water in oceans let's use them to benefit our country and the whole humanity.
Soon or later women from poor countries will follow the western women and reduce the births but we do not know when it will happen.
It is more responsible to start from now preparing for the difficults than to wait for changes that do not depend on us.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

*Soon or later women from poor countries will follow the western women and reduce the births but we do not know when it will happen.*

It will happen Antonious, when they can afford family planning and it
is legal and available for them. We can make it available and
affordable for them if we wish.

*We have to wait many centuries for popes to bring new messeges from the god*

We don't have to wait at all, for as we can see with Italy's Catholics
and catholics elsewhere, they largely ignore their church's preaching
on this one, when they have the option to do so.

My point remains, the more food that we grow and send to the third
world, without family planning, the more people there will be to
feed next year and the year after. The problem will grow and not
be solved at all.

What you suggest makes you feel good, but it is certainly not a
solution. Its simply a bit of a bandaid over a growing problem.