Roarer,
thank you, and I totally agree with you that it's shameful that the government of this 'lucky' country has a worthless dental health system in place.

To be honest, I find it quite degrading that underprivileged people should have to 'run a gauntlet' to obtain free dental treatment. It's disrespectful.

The goverment should be there to service all and cater for all people and ignoring the low incomers and pensioners is not good enough.

Costello was quick to boast about the decrease in Australian debt, but anyone can decrease debt when skimping on basics like a good dental health system.

The Australian dental health system can be compared to third world dental care- nothing to boast about.
Shame on the Australian government!

Celivia,

You are the one who encouraged me to comment on comments, remember.

For starters: I think you are being rude, as a non-citizen, criticising our government. We can do that for ourselves, thankyou. “Luck” has nothing to do with this country. If you read Donald Horne’s book, you will find that the idea of a “lucky country” has always been misinterpreted.

If you feel “degraded”, that’s your problem. Do these “underprivileged” people feel degraded? That’s the real question. If they do, the next question is why they cannot access dental care (or any other medical care) without help from the government.

My own mother lives entirely on the aged-pension. She has private medical insurance, including extras for dental. Is my mother a superdooper old person, or is there a question hanging over other people in the same position without insurance?

My mother is not “lucky”, either. She lives within her means. I suggest to you that most Australians with limited income do not live within that income.

If you believe in the “welfare state”, you have come to the wrong place. If you are looking forward to a change of government next year (although you will have no say in it), you will be disappointed if there is a switch to Labor. The situation was just the same under previous Labor governments. And, Labor has to move further to the centre to achieve government. Australians have clearly given them the message on that.

Socialism with free this and free that has proven disastrous all over the world. It’s time to move on and stress the responsibility of the individual. We have a very generous and humane safety net for the really hard up as it is

When I say gauntlet I mean the "gauntlet of frustration". It is quite obvious that governments in Australia treat their constituents as a bagful of naive drips.They provide the so-called service (they cannot do otherwise due to political expediency) but, then they frustrate you in getting that service which serves to limit expenditure as many people seek treatment privately.This way they have their "cake and eat it too"They cannot be accused of not providing that service whilst at the same time they literally do not.And it works very well.

Roarer,
"This way they have their "cake and eat it too".
...and they are able to take big bites out of that cake since they don't have to rely on their own dental service.

Leigh,
"You are the one who encouraged me to comment on comments, remember. Yes, I knew you couldn't resist!

"For starters: I think you are being rude, as a non-citizen, criticising our government."
Only Australians can criticise the government? I suppose permanent residents must smile at failing governments. Heil Howard!

“Donald Horne’s book…”
That would make an interesting read, thank you.

“If you feel “degraded”, that’s your problem.”
I didn't mean that *I* felt degraded! I am not underprivileged myself; I am speaking out of compassion for others.

“… why they cannot access dental care without help from the government. “
Some people living on a lousy pension still have assets before they lose their pension, but others don't.
You’ll never know someone’s personal situation- there may be a myriad of reasons why they can’t pay for private insurance on a tiny pension. Perhaps they need to eat or live somewhere?
Even many pensioners living in their own home have difficulty paying their rates since the real estate boom!

"Socialism with free this and free that has proven disastrous all over the world."
Where? We've always had free dental treatments and health care; my brother got free braces.
It’s called: Welfare. And it’s not 'really' free- people pay taxes.

"...stress the responsibility of the individual. "
Some individuals have not 'made' it to become wealthy and cannot afford private health insurance. Perhaps they've had health problems or mental problems, came from disadvantaged families, were drug addicts, alcoholics, were homeless, or simply lost their business or job, or were non-earning caretakers or mothers looking after families.

Not EVERYBODY earns enough money to be able to pay for private insurance.
Must they therefore be forced to let their teeth rot out of their mouths or die from some illness just because they don't have assets or savings? That sounds very cruel to me!

The Commonwealth Dental Health Program before it was axed by Howard cost about $100 million per year. The removal of this scheme resulted in waiting lists going from a couple of months to 3-5 years.

The amount of money cut is only slightly less than the cost of "chaplains" in schools, the amount of money spent on advertising work choices (before the legislation was even introduced to parliament) would have paid for about 3.5 years. In fact if Howard had decided to live in The Lodge instead of Kirribilli House the cost would have been zero.

Its about priorities and my view is that Howard's are very wrong on this and many other issues.

Whatever you say, Celivia. It's quite obvious that you like to win an argument, so I'll dip out. Who is the most pigheaded between Germans and Dutch has often been debated. As I am only one third German, I have to concede to you.

Yes. I firmly believe that you have a cheek criticising our government, although you will not be dragged off by the secret police for it. It is a matter of manners and good taste, rather than the law.

I'll never know about other's personal situation? Whereas you do, of course.

If the people "needing" welfare are as hard up as you think, they won't be paying taxes, so it is still free to them.

Everbody has enough money to have private insurance in Australia if they are capable of completing a simple budget. They might have to forgo a few luxuries, but it's a matter of priorities.

Perhaps you, with your vast knowdledge of everything, could teach budgeting to the less able?

I do hope that you have checked back on the subject of permanent residents not voting, and my correction of Mr. Maddens carefully skewed information. I repeat that, now, no newly arrived non-citizen, permanent resident or otherwise, can vote whether they came from the UK or Timbucctoo.

And, if you don't mind telling me, why did you leave the Netherlands to live in Australia, where you have done nothing but moan and groan?