Hey Fractelle and PP, with you on disc world and Adams. I think the 'Golden Torc' you have referred to might have been part of an epic series called the 'Many Coloured Land' by Julian May. A bunch of misfits from a time in the near future choose to be 'ostracised' from memory; sent on a one way trip back 65 million years in time, only to discover the world is in the control of a race of telepathic humanoid aliens; the Gods of mythology.
Thanks for the tip about High Sierra, Fractelle. Never been a huge fan of Bogart, but I'll keep an eye out for it.
Rather than highjacking David f's post, perhaps we should start a page on philosophy in the strangest places, as you suggested.
BTW, I duplicated my post on avasay in the OLO general discussion area, under the less than riveting title, Sentimental or Rational. I was really hoping to get greater numbers contributing their opinions.

Grim

That's right! Julian May, Many Coloured Land - I remember enjoying it a lot.

You don't have to be a Bogart fan for this film - it is very good, sort of film noir type western.

I will copy and paste my response to your OLO thread from avasay, because I am lazy but want to help.

I don't suppose you were a Frank Herbert Dune series fan as well?

Apologies Davidf, but sci-fi probably helped with my philosophical development more than anything else. Yeah, no doubt that explains a lot. I find theology interesting up to a point whereupon I fall asleep.

Fractelle:“I adore Terry Pratchett too. And Douglas Adams may he R.I.P. And thanks to secular humanism we are free to read novels like this. While the religious are free to read their bibles, korans, torahs or whatever.”

Loved Dirk Gently. And that Robot series where the Robot ended up being around thousands (maybe) of years later – whatever that was I really liked it. Some detective thing where the robot did it because if you save many you could ignore that law. I’m useless at this aren’t I…

“... I'd rather go watch paint dry.”

You’re probably more used to everyone, might get a bit predictable for you after awhile aye. Personally I am still missing Ginx. And Foxy has swaned off somewhere doing some wine thing, cheek of the woman.

Cheers, Grim. It was The Many Coloured Land. Hey I only got told recently (oh crap, shocking memory) that a sci fi writer I did enjoy started the whole scientologist thing. No idea why people don’t tell me these things sooner so I can have a giggle. He was just yanking a few chains wasn’t he? I know I heard this famous actor and that joined it but is it really about space ships coming?

I liked Dune, don’t think I read them all and each time a new one came out I had to go back and read the rest to remind myself what was happening.

Now I am off to my own debate in the playroom – I am trying to convince a bunch of lisping, can’t even put their own shoes on, stubborn young argumentative midgets that The Hulk was not in fact a bad guy and that no we are not going to all dress up as batman and kill him. This debate has been going for two days and damned if I can persuade them.

Can you imagine me convincing them there is or isn’t a God? You have to be able to understand The Hulk first!

Piper

Could the Robot story be the one titled "I, Robot", by Isaac Asimov, with the positronic brain?

Here's a new debate you can offer the wee ones:

Who would win a fight?

Cavemen or Astronauts?

No special weapons, just what is available in the natural environment.

Personally, I favour the cavemen.

Apologies again Davidf.

“Could the Robot story be the one titled "I, Robot", by Isaac Asimov, with the positronic brain?”

Yeah was… and I saw that Will Smith movie not long ago, wonder if I’ve got that oldtimers thing. Okay Ms Sci Fi… there was another one was about in the rings of Saturn and some weird symbiotic relationship with another being and I think they mined asteroids or something. I remember these things and remember how much I enjoyed reading them, completely absent of facts. See what happens when you don’t have thoughts for over a decade?

Hey another one was like a tree in space and the aliens that lived on this giant tree.

“Personally, I favour the cavemen.”

Aw dunno – spacemen would be taller and they do exercisers and probably know some martial art. I picture cavemen as little and kinda slow in movement which actually probably doesn’t make sense if they had to hunt for food. But people are bigger now aye?

The kids are up late watching a DVD called “Bolt”, I should drag myself over there and have a look cause I know they’re going to want to talk to me about it after and I’ve never seen it. They are bound to act out bits tomorrow too so I should know because I’ve been caught out before jumping to conclusions when it was just acting.

My daughter has taken one 3 year old aside to teach them how to count to ten… the fool. I do it with lollies, they get however many they can count to.[grin] (oops couldn’t post – just so you know they weren’t up this late).

Dear David f,
You gave a good example of why I am suspicious of historical “ifs”. Mental experimentation (c.f. Einstein with his “free falling elevator”) are an acceptable argument in science, at least in physics, but are dubious when related to events, persons, etc belonging to two historically very different contexts or epochs.

I certainly do not think that Paul would have approved of Hitler but we cannot ask him to decide which one of us two is right. As to Marx, thanks for the very interesting details and quotes: as you might remember my knowledge of Marx comes only through the prism of Marx-Leninism. I do not know if Marx could have approved of both Stalin and Hitler, I just know that there are many people calling themselves Marxists who certainly would not.

OK, there is no Jewish race only ethnicity and Hitler persecuted not the Jewish race but ethnic group. I have no preferences in this terminology.

I agree that the conversos were discriminated against, however this was not as universal and did not last as long as the discrimination (and worse) by Christendom of adherents of Judaism. Many of prominent e.g. 20th century Catholics (Aaron Jean-Marie Lustiger, Raisa Maritain, Edith Stein, etc.) were “coversos” and certainly the Church did not discriminate against them. So if there was anti-semitism in some Christian practice, it was just a local and temporary offshoot from anti-Judaism that was unfortunately more entrenched in how Christians saw themselves.