OUG,

And the relevance of your last two posts to the topic of "How far should a secular multi-cultural society go to accommodate religious sensibilities?" is…….?

For what it's worth I agree that you should not have been compelled to read the Diary of Anne Frank. I've never read it myself. But the relevance of this and similar snippets from your biography to the topic of this thread is…..?

COL ROUGE,

I tend to agree with you.

CJ MORGAN

This is one of those bizarre occasions where you and I are in agreement. However you seem to be contradicting yourself. Previously, in response to the question of banning Holocaust denial, you wrote:

"I couldn't give a stuff about offending and/or insulting - my problem is with racist twats like Toben who think they can publish material that humiliates and/or intimidates. They can't in Australia, and I'm comfortable with that."

See: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2738&page=0

FRACTELLE

Agreed but did anyone actually link the recent bushfires with the legalisation of abortion? It sounds grotesque.

PELICAN,

I guess most of us are in agreement.

The Pied Piper
My friend, my good friend we speak for Australia, we speak for the 21st century!
1. "“Should Muslim policemen be permitted to grow beards?”?
We do not have religious police, cristian or muslim etc, I will fight NEVER to have religious police.
The question should be if we agree with the existance of religious police NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
2. “Should Christian or Muslim parents be able to demand a biology curriculum that excludes evolution for their school-age children?”
NO We will not allow religious to block our children to learn the truth, we will not allow uneducated, or dark minds to block their children to learn the evolution.
3. “Do you think doctors and nurses working in public hospitals should be exempted from assisting with abortions if it offends their religious sensibilities?” No! Doctor's and nurse's duty is to support their patients and no one ask them for their religious,( this is a private issuee).
4. “Supposing the route of a gay pride march passes through a predominantly Christian or Muslim area. Should the residents be able to insist that the march takes an alternative route?” No we do not abandon our democratic rights, civil rights for any religion!
5. “Should a Muslim female police trainee be permitted to avoid shaking hands with a man?” No discriminations against women, no discrimination against muslim women, NO RELIGIOUS PRIVILEGES!
Religious is a personal issue, keep it far of the state or public life.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid

Steven

I do not make such statements lightly. Living in the area struck by fires last February I know people whose homes were destroyed and others whose lives were lost during a period where for 2 weeks I was without telephone or internet connection and on constant alert of ember attack. I am sure you can imagine how disgusted I was on hearing the following:

"PASTOR Danny Nalliah was not surprised by the bushfires due to a dream he had last October relating to consequences of the abortion laws passed in Victoria. He said these bushfires have come as a result of the incendiary abortion laws which decimate life in the womb. CTFM has called on all Australian Bible-believing, God-fearing Christians to repent and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ for his mercy and protection over Australia once again."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25037315-20261,00.html

The bushfires did not discriminate between Christians and non-Christians, nor those who controlled their fertility or not.

Antonios, let me explain how I saw these questions.

[1. "“Should Muslim policemen be permitted to grow beards?”?
We do not have religious police, Christian or Muslim etc, I will fight NEVER to have religious police.
The question should be if we agree with the existence of religious police ]

A beard would not disrupt their work. I see it doing no harm to allow this.

[2. “Should Christian or Muslim parents be able to demand a biology curriculum that excludes evolution for their school-age children?”
NO We will not allow religious to block our children to learn the truth, we will not allow uneducated, or dark minds to block their children to learn the evolution.]

Oh see I know my kids used to come home with notes asking me if I wanted them to go to bible class or sex education – again no harm done.

[3. “Do you think doctors and nurses working in public hospitals should be exempted from assisting with abortions if it offends their religious sensibilities?” No! Doctor's and nurse's duty is to support their patients and no one ask them for their religious,( this is a private issue).]

Whether for religious or personal reasons they should be allowed to choose their areas of work.

[4. “Supposing the route of a gay pride march passes through a predominantly Christian or Muslim area. Should the residents be able to insist that the march takes an alternative route?” No we do not abandon our democratic rights, civil rights for any religion!]

Those marches aren’t about “rights” they are about sex. I find them err… Yucky.[smile]

[5. “Should a Muslim female police trainee be permitted to avoid shaking hands with a man?” No discriminations against women, no discrimination against muslim women, NO RELIGIOUS PRIVILEGES!
Religious is a personal issue, keep it far of the state or public life.]

What about a cop with a hand phobia? I don’t see this as a big deal. Religious or not people have quirks and if they do no harm, they do no harm.

"“They should be outlawed completely”"

Horus:"Must say, I would not have picked you to have such an opinion–what is your rationale?"

Hiya Horus, I find them to be completely about sex and not about love, partnership, or the rights of people who are gay or lesbian.

The first one I ever saw (on TV when young) made me think how embarrassing for all the nice same sex couples in the world that do not want what happens in their bedrooms bought in to the public eye in such a crude display.

I may have a prudish streak Horus. Oh see now you’ve got me trying to work out why I feel like that. Does my reasoning make sense to you?

Dear Steven,

We've agreed on many things in the past -
I'm not at all surprised that we seem to
agree again. I'm see-sawing on the Doctor-Nurses
issue (somewhat) - you've raised a valid point.

However, I feel that a doctor or a nurse
should be prepared to do whatever is necessary
- even in a case where they
may be called upon to perform an abortion -( to save
a mother's life) - in a public hospital. If their
religious beliefs will interfere with their ability
to do the job - they should stipulate that quite clearly
to the hospital prior to being hired. As an Administrator
I would have serious doubts about hiring a professional
who told me they couldn't perform some aspects of their
job due to their religious beliefs. Public hospitals
need doctors and nurses - who are able to respond - not
matter what they're asked to do - in order to save lives.

As for Holocaust denial - Steven - it was actually your
influence that made me re-think that issue.

People like Frederick Tobin and others like him -
are entitled to think whatever they want privately -
(they can't change historical facts
with their bigoted points of view).
However, they are not entitled to 'hate speech,' and
vilification through the media
- which was my objection
to a lot of what Tobin was doing. He had crossed the line
from private thoughts and went on a publicized
'crusade,' of hatred -
that was breaking the law - as I saw it.