I don't know enough about the Book of Job to express any opinion, but just wanted csteele and other posters to know that I am enjoying reading and learning from the topic and posts.

Please carry on:)

Dear Punchme,

Thankyou and I may be wrong but I think we may have run our race on the topic. I have been doing some further readings on what philo has posted and can find little fault however as suspected those same readings have served to dry out the Book for me. However I only need to dip back into its pages to be revived.

In some ways he is quite correct when he states: “The paleo text of Job in not a timeless statement.” However when we reflect on its ability to move a relatively modern man like myself surely we have to acknowledge a degree of timelessness. Likewise while we probably “cannot interpret ancient historical thought by modern word or idea usage.” but surely we can examine our own world through the prism of the Jobean tale and its universality allows us that luxury.

I think one of the great cases of ignoring historical thought is our disregard of Jesus’ view of gentiles. He was loathed to cast pearls before swine and his bringing of one women into the fold through her humbling herself before him metaphorically as a dog is taken by Christianity as a door through which any gentile believer may pass.

I have been reflecting what it is in Job that has pushed my buttons and have come to the conclusion, which I am not entirely comfortable with and others might find a little sad, that it may well be its maleness.

Who can read “Brace yourself like a man” without stiffening the spine and sucking in the gut. The verses about the horse is refined ‘Boys Own’ stuff.

19 "Do you give the horse his strength
or clothe his neck with a flowing mane?
20 Do you make him leap like a locust,
striking terror with his proud snorting?
21 He paws fiercely, rejoicing in his strength,
and charges into the fray.
22 He laughs at fear, afraid of nothing;
he does not shy away from the sword.
23 The quiver rattles against his side,
along with the flashing spear and lance.

Cont’

Cont’

24 In frenzied excitement he eats up the ground;
he cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds.
25 At the blast of the trumpet he snorts, 'Aha!'
He catches the scent of battle from afar,
the shout of commanders and the battle cry.

I mean really, ‘Into the valley of death rode the five hundred’ or even;

“He was hard and tough and wiry—just the sort that won't say die
There was courage in his quick impatient tread;
And he bore the badge of gameness in his bright and fiery eye,
And the proud and lofty carriage of his head.”

And in the spirit of the challenges tossed between Job and God one can’t help but ticking off a few of the questions God throws at him. For instance;

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

Well we have, we know to the metre how big it is. We’ve measured it, mapped it, echo sounded it, surveyed it minerals and a whole bunch of other stuff.

8 "Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,

Well the Dutchies are pretty good at that.

16 "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?

Yep.

18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

30 years ago thanks to Neil and the crew.

22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,

Uh huh and they are called clouds.

25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,
26 to water a land where no man lives,
a desert with no one in it,
27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?

We do, and those Romans had a pretty good handle on it too, even back then.

Cont

Cont

29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

Just open a fridge door.

33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Pretty good idea thanks.

35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?

Seen it all at Science Works, and your Leviathan and Behemoth populate our zoos.

So what you going to do about it? Smite in spite again?

Yes it all sounds very ubermale but it is hard to deny this is God’s approach to Job and that he invites Job to respond in kind.

This is not by any means the totality of my infatuation with the Book of Job but I am confessing that on reflection I have deemed it to be a notable part of it and one that it is a little unfair to expect others to respond to.

as jesus said...the things ye see me do [you will do greater]

now jesus wasnt the father..[light]..but he came to reveal of the light..[god]..and behold the light is good...but i will for the ezxersize..take exception to our man of steel's quotes

<<..the earth's foundation?..Tell me,..if you understand...>>YEAH TELL ME TOO

<<5..Who marked off its dimensions?..Surely you know!>>good question

<<we know to the metre how big it is...We’ve measured it,..mapped it,..echo sounded it,..surveyed it minerals and a whole bunch of other stuff.>>not to put too fina point on it.lets round off those questions..with that..you think definitivly provides the answers

im asuming no exp[anding universe,no big bank...to the meter...lol..surveyed if for minerals[wtf]...the maps i have seen dont reveal..the trillions of other universes..echo sounded[huh?]

the universe is how big?..[at the speed of light the theory is the light/radiations etc are still rebounding..in short you speak a big talk white fella...give up some fact

as for the moonlanding..theres plenty of proof it was faked...here is how they 'framed the earth',..from 'heaven'..lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xUGRngAhBI

as for having..<<walked..in the recesses of the deep?..>>...im not sure what you call..'walking'

as for your..<<..So what you going to do about it? Smite in spite again>>>..mate that isnt god..which you should well know..in light of your other agrandisments of mankind

as for<<he invites Job to respond in kind...>>..im with the quaran in this...MAKE FIRST ONE LIKE IT...mankind is destined to assume his great calling...but i will again assert the words of jesu..he who would lead you..will serve you...and..by their works will we know them

i will add..only by knowing the fruits from god..from the fruits not from god..will we ever know our living loving good[god]

It is really only one book of many in the Holy Bible. The Book of Job. What about the story of Penuel in Genesis 32, where Jacob, who had been quite a rascal, decided to camp alone on the far side of a river, and wrestles with God all night. He was obviously a fine style of a man, quite strong and determined, and courageously stayed alone over the other side of the brook. He would not let God go, until God blessed him, and God stated that he would no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, and Israel means Man of God.

This was a case where a prayer was answered and peace was made between Jacob/Israel and Esau, and the blessing of the Lord fell upon Jacob. At that time he only had eleven sons, Joseph was born later, and in that passage are some very important lessons for life. He was asking Esau for forgiveness and he got it. This is the genuine repentance that the Lord demands for admission to His Kingdom, and to this day, a person is asked to forgive all those who have wronged him, before he or she takes Holy Communion.

The interesting section in Genesis is Section 49 verse 10, at the end of the anointing of Judah, as Ruler of the Family of God. The Sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Shiloh was Jesus Christ.

The gathering of the people has been interpreted by English Scholars to mean a jury trial, so under the scepter a jury trial was to be called. The Lion of Judah sat atop the British Coat of Arms, and still sits in some District Court rooms in Sydney. It is on the old Post Office building at Central Railway Station, and engraved on the windows of the Local Courts at the downing centre. There is an enormous amount of wisdom not only in the Book of Job, but for bible believers throughout the Holy Bible