Manners.
I can be pretty rude and insulting sometimes but hopefully people can see it in the spirit of the debate as a strident defense of my beliefs and not as personal or the way I am in general.

I think most people are generally polite it is just the few that are badly brought up and dont care as well as the occasional lapses im sure we are all guilty of. In this modern world we are all subject to stresses and situations we dont want and sometimes this inevitably spills over and affects the way we treat others.

Once again I blame the atomisation of society and the selfishness promoted by capitalism for the pressures we all feel that can sometimes lead to less than courteous behavior.

Can we really be critical of the surly teenager who cant find a decent job when they dont say please or thankyou or worse. Or the harried and harassed checkout operator or waitstaff who cant bother to even be sincere when they serve you with their "have a nice day". Do you really expect the taxi driver or truckie to follow rules of etiquette after a day fighting traffic on todays roads?

What about the examples set by our so called leaders. Parliament is a complete zoo most days. Shock jocks are hardly beacons of civility now are they but they are oh so influential and respected. Even the media with all its rules and regulation is filled with rude, obnoxious characters who regularly stoop to the lowest levels of bad taste and behavior. Sports stars. LOL Musicians. HA Even the godbotherers are complete assholes on a regular basis. Pell, every evangalist hatemongering preacher, the Israelis, muslims, they all hate and defame each other (and worse) on a constant basis.

People who are happy and content and have time and freedom are courteous, kind and civil. People who are overworked, unhappy, discontent, and powerless will not put any effort into manners and polite behavior and I dont blame them one bit.

Ahhh Mikk, but that is precisely my point.
Manners and courtesy are no longer taught, not in school, and rarely at home, beyond please and thankyou. The essence of this style of behaviour is that we do it NO MATTER WHAT! It's a cop-out to put the blame on the pressures of modern life, there are still many cultures that seem to have them, only in "The West" have they been abandoned.
It would appear to be a side-effect of the concentration of the focus on the sacred "ME".

I was also brought up to "do the right thing by women", Max, which included such niceties as opening doors, holding a lady's chair, standing when a lady entered the room, not swearing in front of women, etc. the intent was to demonstrate respect for women, certainly not to denigrate as Fractelle and foxy seem to think it does. The semiotics were clear and uncomplicated and only the most twisted logic could make anything else out of it.

My experience as an adult is that women rarely acknowledge such courtesies and even exhibit annoyance at them sometimes, so for a time I deliberately did the "wrong" thing, just to see what response I would get. For example, if there was a woman approaching the door at the same time as me, I'd wait for her to open it (and believe me, I always had to wait) and walk through ahead of her. If I was the one to get there first, instead of holding it I'd walk through and let it go, forcing her to catch it. I never saw a single woman fail to make some sign of annoyance at my behaviour, mostly subconsciously I suspect.

I suspect that much of the irritation that some of the women here feel at my posts is the fact that I'm not operating according to those unconsciously-assimilated "rules" of courtesy they expect from men. Despite their protestations of egalitarianism, they still really axpect men to treat them "nicely", even when their gender is of no relevance, such as here on an anonymous forum.

Must be biologically determined...

Interesting topic, Maximillion. A couple of weeks back I remarked in another thread about the decline of civility in our society, and I think that notions like courtesy and manners are the mundane manifestations of it. Like you, I am often complimented by others about my children's behaviour, since they have been taught by me and their mother to display consideration and courtesy to others as a matter of course.

However, I think that the issue of who opens doors is a trivialisation of the general decline in interpersonal behaviour - indeed, my kids do as I do on that score: whoever gets there first opens it for others. I hold doors open for men as well as women if I happen to get there first.

In my business, customers who are rude to me or my staff don't get served. People who are rude on the phone are hung up on. Since the next similar business is 20 km away, it's amazing how civil our younger customers have become, although it always astounds me to strike people who apparently are completely unfamiliar with expressions such as 'please' and 'thank you'.

I think that one of the most obvious examples of the decline in overall civility in our society is people's behaviour on the roads. Who had ever heard of 'road rage' until about a decade ago? 25 years ago I was a cab driver while studying in Sydney, but on the basis of recent visits to that urban nightmare there is no way that I'd want to either deal with the general public or even drive there.

Max,
You are right of course and there are many examples of bad manners, some I notice are the young walking abreast and not moving aside for others, The young being waited on at gatherings and not helping to pass around refreshments and getting service out of turn in shops. It is simple courtasy that makes our society.

I think the cause is a more casual way of life and parents not teaching the kids to respect others. Children made to address adults properly and not by first name, unless invited to do so. Being on time for meals and sitting at the table shows respect for mum, who prepared the meal. A small compliment also helps. Many kids are not taught how to use cultery or even how to hold a pen properly.

We all have noticed this and the question is do we accept it and if not what can be done.

Setting a good example at home would be a start and politicians could improve their game. Media set poor examples by the way they conduct interviews and rudely intrude. Saying please and thank you should be automatic.

Okay I got a bit lost (yeah I bet you're all surprised).

Are we talking manners or are we talking rules in society like everyone stops when the light is red?

Society wroks mostly based on an understanding of how things happen, cues in shops etc?

Manners are the thanking someone for something or stopping to help someone who has dropped their shopping in the street? Showing curtesy?

Do ethics come in to this? Someone leaves their wallet on a seat, do you tell them out of manners or because it is the "right" thing to do and is that under the heading of manners?