Hey there everyone,

Just a question. I don't work in an "office". Didn't go to uni. Does this mean that certain topics such as politics, international affairs, books are untouchable to me? I've found a brief silence occurs when these topics are brought up, followed by a feeling of hesitation to include me in the conversation. I've taken this as:
1. They assume the topic will soar over my head
or
2. They don't want me to embarass myself incase I mistake the topic as a review on the latest Home and Away episode (I actually like Home and Away).

It could well be that the circle I run in may just not like me. If this is the case, I'll choose another circle. But maybe it's the job I have or lack of education? Just wanted to see what others thought.

Pal01. It is never too late to educate yourself.No topic is too difficult that relates to your experiences.Think for yourself but have an open mind on what others say.

The more ignorant is our society,then the less freedoms and properity will we all enjoy.Now is a time like never before in living memory for all concerned citizens to become aware and have their say.

This site is not about intellectual snobbery.Snobbery is for the ignorant and insecure.

palo1 mate its not that they can think at all[they are preaching to the converted[..the points you raise are making them think..[they dont want to think..[they want to pat each other on the back and say yes..we know it all]..they are reinforcing each others ignorance

see that university is about creating yes men[its nothing to do with origonal thinking[or learning,..but simply teaching the group think, to fixate on past glories and set up peers..[that create sphere of same thought..group think

your problem isnt lack of education but too muych free thinking..[those living in the no thought zone are frightend of thinkers]..especially thoughts that come from those they regard as their infiriours

its not a thing you can change[and will find it is the same at all levels]any group...develops group think, and l;oners are too unique in their thinking that they even get rejectyed by their own...

for me its a choice between thinking as i chose or join the group and stop thinking..[so i just blog as i feel],and accept others blogging as they feel..thats as close as i can get to group thinking..[and we mainly have a group here..that when it clumps into group think is easilly revealed by..non opposing vieuws..being readilly apparent

anyhow...wiser than me will give you better reply

Hiya Pal,

“1. They assume the topic will soar over my head”

With me it often does but this rarely stops me. I ask a lot of questions.

“2. They don't want me to embarrass myself in case I mistake the topic as a review on the latest Home and Away episode (I actually like Home and Away).”

Too much credit given there I suspect. I have never watched Home and Away, thought it might make me dumber.

“It could well be that the circle I run in may just not like me. If this is the case, I'll choose another circle. But maybe it's the job I have or lack of education? Just wanted to see what others thought.”

My thoughts: Your opinion is important, in fact it is necessary. The variety of thought is essential for everyone to learn.

I think OUG’s post said it all. I read it out loud, it helps and then you spot the humor better.

Just wade in boots and all - don't worry about what others might think. They may surprise you and you may surprise them.

Education does not always mean common sense and education does not necessarily outweigh experience.

Blue collar workers offer a perspective that some in their ivory towers will never understand.

Just say what you think. I've known some incredibly dense university graduates and some incredibly intelligent tradies. While I wouldn't agree with OuG's suggestion that universities create 'yes men' (if you have been around a university at student election times, or during the whole 'Blockade CHOGM' campaign, you'd see that no two uni students think alike), they do not necessarily open doors to all types of thinking, either. Some of my best philosophical or political discussions have been held with a housemate who didn't quite finish Year 9 at school. She's certainly not dumb - it's just that her education comes from life experience.

I'm always amused when I hear people saying that 'Bono should shut up about poverty - what does he know?' or that celebrities can only be figureheads, rather than driving forces behind campaigns. It is the same thing - just because they have chosen to take a different path in life (singing, cricket, carpentry, whatever) doesn't mean that they are incapable of grasping complex issues and even, heaven forbid, offering rational and realistic solutions.

Obaby:“I'm always amused when I hear people saying that 'Bono should shut up about poverty - what does he know?' or that celebrities can only be figureheads, rather than driving forces behind campaigns. It is the same thing - just because they have chosen to take a different path in life (singing, cricket, carpentry, whatever) doesn't mean that they are incapable of grasping complex issues and even, heaven forbid, offering rational and realistic solutions.”

Yes like; Linda Burney does not have to like kids to run the department of community services, in fact it could well be an advantage to actively dislike them.

The poverty comment may be a little sceewif; Poverty not really being a chosen path in life but rather a major highway with no off ramp.

Mate you have got us wrong, no snobbery in OLO and blue collar? no one is more so than me.
Education? out of school before my teen age years and working.
Never stopped learning, yet.
Look at my first posts.
No its true some subjects do not get the interest I expect.
Politics is often not the subject some want.
We often see true disagreement over it but rarely snobbery,
In truth I have not noticed a thread other than this one but will look for others from you.

Academic qualification and intelligence are two different things.

Some of the most 'qualified' I know, are not that smart. They seem to have an outlook and impression based on a narrow set of the principles required for their formal training. Not all of them, but many. It is quite noticeable. And it occurs not only at executive level.

eg; give me the vocational nurse anyday,over the one with the Uni degree. This is so relevant to my recent hospital stay!

Now intelligent folk are far more interesting! I much prefer their company. And let's be clear on this,-you are intelligent. If you weren't-you would not have even asked your question!

Besides; blue collar workers are far more interesting than their executive counterparts.

Sol Trujillo was about as interesting as cat poo.

Ginx

You are maligning cat poo - it can at least fertilise the garden.

Welcome to OLO PAL01.

As others have stated it is not about how much education you have, it is about you; your interests, sense of humour, opinions. All of which may be expressed in simple terms. In fact, a clear simple post is preferable to the interminable waffle that is churned out by some of OLO's contributors. I don't need to name names, you'll recognise one soon enough.

Jewely is one of the newest contributors here and I always look forward to whatever she writes because she is so often hilarious and has a lateral point of view that I suspect doesn't come from a university degree.

Cheers

Oh poo, beaten to the punch!
Cat and their poo can carry diseases parasites.Their poo is not that good for the gardens but buried cats are or was I'm told by an employee. ;-)

Belly beat me to the punch I was going to offer his comments that blue collar can have insightful views.
Pal 01 I would suggest either therapy or a lot of booze for your addiction to 'Home and away' I don't need to watch TV tragic dramas some of the debates here can be that at times. :-)
Me I left school at 16 but at 30 odd went to uni and down hill ever since so some say.
Life in any job and beyond can be 1 year experience X 40+ years. or
40+ years of experience. The latter is the most interesting if hair depleting or greying. Only you can determine that....I'm still learning.

Good luck

PAL01
Greek church blocked from the greek university because I was atheist and against the miletary junta, I interrupted German universioty because I was deported from the country, and I stoped the Adelaide University because I had to solve family problems.
In an Open University when I finished my speak, a professor from the chair said "I did not know that we have a professor here" and called me on the chair!
4-5 years before I spent some time reading about computers, internet, search engines, etc. I created a website and I published some simple articles HOW TO: Most search engines put them on the top first page, between milion of pages, and I found they used at least in two American universities, one for exersizes, they did not know that I had nothing to do with IT.
Many times I tried to play with professors especial in jurnalist school.
PAL01
Today of cause the internet, all libraries are opened, you can become an expert on any subject withought to go a day to school.
There are many professors, many wrote excelent advanced books withought to go a day to university.
The university gives the very basics and many times I wounder how so low IQ persons, finish the Universities.
In holand there was a man who took money to write doctorates for others althouht he never finished University.
One time I had a product manager whose brain was less developed than from a child.
One time in one country, (I lived in 4 countries for long time and I traveled about 50 countries) in a seminar for party and union officers, I did a "simple" question. The speakers was TOP, TOP party level.
After my question the seminars stoped for ever because they had deep darkness!!
Knowledge is one thing and certficates and bachelors and degrees is an other story.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Fractelle how on earth did you guess I didn't go to Uni.[giggle]

Hey Ginx, I didn't realise but Aussies really arn't keen on cats aye or is it just around here? My last cat, who I actually quite liked - when it died I got it skinned. Lovely.

Guys... is there a way to private mail Graham? DoCS are hunting me and using the care and protection act to request all my posts off other sites. I don't even know if it is legal.

OUG... Peter...You fellas around?

Didn't mean to put a knot in your thread Pal. Well I did but I do feel bad if that is any help.

Antonios, you are a wonder my man. You also give me hope that I will also learn more and do better in the future.

...if DoCS don't lock me up or something.

Hi Pal, I'm the same as yourself. Never went to uni, finished at tech at what is now known as year 11. What I've found from the so called educated class is they won't discuss things with you because you're self taught and don't say things out of their books :) It's kinda like talking to a call center parrot, if it's not in their script, they're lost lol.

Well that's how I've found most of them to be. I know they're not all like that, but the ones that aren't are far and few between. And don't let their verbal diarrhea.. err I mean vocabulary fool or intimidate you, it's their way of trying to make you feel inferior and make them feel superior, but we all know that's BS ok :)

yes we are here jewel[ok i am]..lol

contacting graham is as easy as clicking on the X next to anyones name[the x button flags the post to grayham]you then get to write a comment..[so simply write your concerns to him..say by complaining about this post

..he will possably reply that they dont need to do this through admin,...its as simple as clicking on the users post button[the picture of a person[that takes anyone to your post page]..

the fact is they are in common demain..[but cant be proved to be posted by anyone in particular..[i could be posting your details/info for egsample to get you in trouble[for egsample]

WE RAELLY dont know just who anyone is..[and graham would possably need at least a court order,to give out the info as a minimum]..but he could no doudt reply you if you put your fears to him [via the complaint button, you could for egsample request this post for deletion[with my permission because it teqniclly is off topic

anyhow cheers, fortuinatly we are still allowed to ask questions in this world[and thats all i have seen your forum name do]

"It could well be that the circle I run in may just not like me." Painful as it may be, I expect you must first seriously examine this somewhat unlikely scenario and see if it could be true.

If it is then yes, you need to find another crowd. One that likes and respects you as friends and colleagues should.

If it is not true, I think you have to ask yourself if maybe you are simply imagining this silence that falls when you say something: it sounds like awfully ignorant behaviour and certainly nothing could be gained by continuing relationships with these people. Is it not at all possible that you may perhaps actually be feeling inadequate or inferior because of what you think of as a lack of education?

If in fact you are projecting your worries then you should take notice of the good sense people have offered here: educational qualifications are entirely irrelevant to a persons actual education and knowledge.

If you are honestly not just imagining it then I think that, in either case, you should get shot of the whole lot of them: they are either very rude or they don't value/like you - so why even bother with them?

No truly educated people would consider that it takes a Certificate to enable anyone to have a valid or valuable opinion. \

So I see no possible reason for staying friends with the people with whom you currently "run". Dump 'em and find some real friends. Anybody who considers their opinion more valid than someone elses cannot lay claim to being either educated or intelligent.

Remember, Maggie Thatcher's parents were blue collar worker and they presented the world with a leader who obviously owed her values to those parents.

No person who was either educated or intelligent would refuse to listen to someone simply because of their occupation. That is elitist: and who needs friends or acquaintancwa who are elitist? And who would even want to such people as friends?

Do not let DOC,s monster you jewely, they are lost in a world of their own,we should never put such people in charge of children,s welfare.
Back on subject, we all post threads that sink, some, well only a few get past 10 posts, rarely past 100.
And while we all think our post is interesting its others rights not to agree.
I am busting to post about politics, growing chance of a full election, the madness of conservatives risking such a thing.
Even state asking why my party the ALP is acting just as unwisely in NSW by not emptying the leadership bucket before the train wreck.
But we do it over and again and I am trying to post threads of interest to most, so maybe later.

Gotta admit, no formal quallies to speak of (apart from some history/religion/photography bits I did out of curiosity, and relevant trade ones in cooking and horticulture) but a mind like a bucket, a million bits of data, gathered over decades, and a fascination with info, history, politics, religion, et.al. and I've wandered around a few sites and fora, been abused, heckled, belittled etc, and have found none of that snobbery or BS here, and that's why I stay.
Anything that makes me think is welcome, and this place is certainly good for THAT!

PAL01

You could never embarrass yourself here by putting what you believe as what this site "is" for opinions and not to be criticised by others who think that they are better and smarter than others.

Always be strong with your thoughts and be weary of all people in this world, they do have their own motives like everyone else. Intelligence on here is not what it seems, a lot of members know these threads back the front and in side out
and this proves nothing of intelligence.
(ploy want a cracker)
The pharaoh's system is still alive and well, and unknowingly, keep the three levels of community spaced for opportunities for greed.
To be on the in-crowd, just keep up with all this round and around post beaten stuff and watch world current events, trust me, their very good at it. That posters popularity depends on your point of view
and there is massive support less of course your god is with you armed with a sub-machine gun.
The hardest thing for a leader to do is, too keep everyone happy at the same time as changes are implemented, and for god sake! don't break any eggs while you make your omelets.

I generally post collective thoughts, have a little chat, then move on and leave them for the people to decide. and at the end of the day, i turn off my computer, and go back to the real world. My self, I sit on the fringes and watch the ant ball scurry around in its some-what entertaining way.
All decent people here, but its not the real world, its the Internet, but some use it like a telephone and take directly, some just whinge and whinge with no point, like melol, but just have fun with it, teaching tolerance is easy, except the ones that don't know the meaning of the word Internet.

You think these people would actually talk face to face for what they say on here.

They wouldn't dare, and this is the difference.

EVO

Pal, the longest journey starts with the first step. You have put your foot on the travellator. Hang around, the internet is the greatest democratic institution ever invented, and you’re in the club. Of course Blue Collar opinions count and always have. Some of our more successful leaders knew that without blue collar support, they could never survive, and blue collar does not mean dumb.

I left school at seventeen because I was bored silly with it. I had a row with the Principal at the school I was at, and told him their teachings were irrelevant, which provoked an argument, but about two years later the curriculum changed. However I was told by my excellent teachers, that they had succeeded in their mission in life, if they had taught us to learn. That they had done well, and I have never stopped learning.

I go to one church in Sydney that used to be full of blue collar workers, and can hold 400, and rarely gets fifty these days, and another a little way away, set in the middle of a blue collar area, that is bursting at the seams. One is full of young blue collar workers and their wives, and the other has mostly professionals. I never miss the blue collar church. I am a very rare bird, in both places. There are very few lawyers who go to church, which is a crying shame, because the law is based in the New Testament, and its workings are illustrated by the Old.

Some of the longest threads here are about Christianity and its rivals. Many derogatory posts have been admitted and that is as it should be. Brand X is not the same as Brand Y, and the rule adopted by the English, and lifted straight out of the Book, is read the stories for yourself. Publishing the Holy Bible in English was the start of a long and prosperous era for the English. It is still a worldwide runaway best seller, and there should be a copy in every home. It is full of fascinating stories

Very nicely said peter, and very true words.

EVO

Peter you got that right my copy is in use daily it is just the right size to stop my bed rattling.
EVO3, well what can you say about that post?
Trying to put us all down?
Welcoming a new poster?
Or just proving some of us are too impressed by their own words
I assure you this is the real me.
No different in real life.
And while you find fault with us I bet most are the same.
We banter we fight but we communicate.
In fact I am willing to bet the prickley person you can be at times is the real you.

When the silvertails decided to make us all slaves again, by taking away half your voting rights, in New South Wales in 1970, and in Queensland in 1991, Australian society started on a long downward spiral that is continuing. While the majority of blue collar workers were so busy making a living, and had entrusted an increasing amount of their power to lawyers, in both political parties, the snobs and megalomaniacs stole the right to express your opinion in a very practical and important way.

There was one brand of religion that tolerated slavery. That brand was abolished from English Government way back in 1215, at a little island in the Thames called Runnymede. In 1770 while Captain Cook was wending his way from Sydney to the Top of Cape Your, in his 4 knot an hour coal barge, Lord Chatham was giving a speech in the House of Lords on the English Constitution. Two hundred and forty years ago, he praised what he called the Iron Barons, the rough and ready English Barons who gave the English their Constitution, not just for the silvertails, but for everyone, in a universal Christian democracy that has survived ever since. You may find a copy here: http://www.community-law.info/?page_id=365

He said: That the weak, the subject, the defenceless, shall, “ not be governed by the arbitrium of any one man” but only by the orderly processes of the justice which is necessary for their liberties and their defence.— to hold that idea as Chatham held it, and to dare as much for it as he dared, would make any man great. Undoubtedly he was one of the greatest men of England.

By coming on board in OLO, Pal01, you are becoming part of the solution instead of being part of the problem. That word arbitrium spells out exactly what is wrong with Australia today. If it was not for that word being applied to the United States we may well have been speaking French. The failure to extend justice to America ended the English presence there. The rest as they say is history

*Peter you got that right my copy is in use daily it is just the right size to stop my bed rattling.*

Belly, it must have been all that group sex which wore out
the bed :)

Belly. Me prickly? not at all, Iam quite the opposite, but probably my personal life and on here, are two different things. Balanced, fairness, and equal opportunity. But you are your self on here, and that's your choice as many wish to do so. My life off air, is community loving as the next man or woman and my concerns are just as important considering we are all in the same soup. See! its that big picture thing again, which maybe getting in the way of communication.

Ok. I,ll try to peel off the cactus suit. As you know, am a very lazy writer, and its a no-brain-er to wright like the elite, but that in fact stops people from other walks of life to have ago and understand what the top shelf is talking about, so I break it down.

To be un prickly, Iam a skid-steer front-end loader driver, which as you can imagine, gives me a lot of time to think. My first years in high school, I topped 1AA in science in my form and have been passionate about it ever since. At the age of 8 i got my first chemistry set with all the goodies and 35 years later, Iam still passionate about it, but Iam NO einstein. The lady of snow, just down from Sidney's train station, peter would know the one, I spent hundreds of hours feeding and helping the poor, hungry, drug-affected and the homeless, no pay, just love and caring. The fact is belly, the world makes me prickly, not the good people in it.

EVO

That poor Pal when this user pops back they're going to get a hell of a fright.

Did we decide yet who was the most officially uneducated person Online?

Has the poll come in stating which one of us is most in touch with the great unwashed?

Was there a vote on who gave him the biggest hello and welcome?

Did I get top marks in any?

Hey pale! bite me! you top-end flee scratcher. Hows the croc,s? lol

EVO

Surely it's the quality of what you say not the quantity of your education that matters on OLO.

It seems to me that some of you are opting for reverse snobbery.
Just because you have an education that doesn't mean you're a dill or vise versa.

Umm Evo, I read that bite me thing, went away, come across it again, ignored it, now it's bugging me.

Did you have like a psychotic episode?

Can someone help... I log in and look up and down about 15 displayed messages trying to work out which ones have new posts based on the times they were left.

I am guessing there is an easier way to do this? Something I can click on so that I just get the New posts?

Just pretend for my sake that it's quite tricky and you all had problems with it yourselves until a rocket scientist logged in one day and told you all how to do it.

Hi Jewely - when you're in the main "The Forum" window, with the "Articles" or "General" tab in front, just click on the "Last Post" heading (about halfway down your screen, 2/3 across to the right). You can also change the number of discussions displayed per category and how far they go back - easiest done on the "General" page.

On topic - at OLO I've seen the dumbest and most ignorant tripe posted by those who claim to have doctorates. I've also seen some wonderfully sagacious stuff posted in almost incomprehensible English - but the message can still get across.

Go for it, PAL01 :)

Jewely asks:

"Can someone help... I log in and look up and down about 15 displayed messages trying to work out which ones have new posts based on the times they were left.

I am guessing there is an easier way to do this? Something I can click on so that I just get the New posts?"

There is an easier way, Jewely. Just click on the words 'Last post' at the top of the right-hand-most column on either the Articles index page or the General Discussion index page. All topics will then be re-displayed in the order of recency of the last posts made to them.

All of the index page column headings are clickable 'buttons', although this is not necessarily obvious to anyone new to the Forum. Clicking the heading 'Posts' re-orders the index page from the topic having had the greatest number of posts made to it at the top, and in descending order from there.

These display preferences do not stick: after a period of inactivity on your part of I think around two hours, any index display refresh will default to listing of topics in order of publication date, until you again click, for example, 'Last post'.

There is a saying amongst web page designers that "if it ain't obvious, it ain't obvious". Even on fora run by geeks for geeks, highly experienced web designers frequently fail to make features obvious or self-explanatory. This is why I say forums need page pages (and an obvious 'page page' button) to facilitate use.

It also pays to enter the 'display topics one quarter back' display option to reveal recent posts on topics that may be more than one month old. 'Sexting it up', in the Articles index, is a topical example.

Thank you Forrest, OUG explained the clickable heading thing awhile ago but the last post thing had me stumped. And sometimes people mention how they got notified of a thread. I click somewhere for that?

Should be a permanent thread somewhere to help the plebs like me. You’re going to tell me there is a help thing aren’t you but you wont see my face go red so it wont count.

I went back and read some old messages on OLO, only back to December. There seems to be a pattern on here, if you are losing attack grammar. I read 5 messages in a row from username Nicky saying she is not going to reply anymore then she waited until someone else said something and replied to them to complain about the person she wouldn’t talk to.

Oh and a short thread about embarrassing moments, that was cool.

I remember the same conversations on BBS’s 15 years ago. Not as sophisticated but it was all a bit new back then. Anyone ever done a study/article on forum messaging?

at the bottum of every page you will see..a lightening-bolt..[extreem right..[clicking on that sends you to the notification/page..[at that page you click the button and are subscribed

the other..[easier]-way to subscribe is..on the response/page..[under/the previeuw button..is an empty box..[clicking on it..atomaticlly subscribes you..to the post]

subscription means;..every post comes to your email-box..[it also tells who posted,..clicking on the link sends us to 1 st page,...

extra info...

the address difference/between page 1 and the full page is .. &page=0
so..[if you want to skip the first page..go straight to the new post,..cut the adress link/and add to the adress...and add in[ &page=0 ]..that should take you..in one click..to the full page]..but i dont mind clicking on the all button,

anyhow..thats how i figured how to do it in one click..but as usual post too much info..[lol]...

thats why im not getting into the emarising moments thread...i like to keep my private-bits out of my public-bits..[were i better educated i would have a better word than bits]..but im only a bit-player..[and doubly so because i wrote bitter..[instead of better]..owing to my poor eye hand co-ordination

but one of my regrets is..illegable handwriting..[but no use handwringing about the issue]..if i was edumacated..i wouldnt be as opinionated..[because]..all my dis-opinion would have been masticated from my mind by the re-education..[higher education]..lol..process

god it must be great..to be really edumacated..[ie knowing how to properly spellout..the words i choose to use..[instead of continually trying to spell out the meanings of the words/im conciously mangeling]

see that words are sacred..[sacred/words..=..s/words]
words can wound..[maybe thats why i wound words back]

revenge is sweet,..no sweat

you bet words can hypnotise..[each contains a spell]
wether spelling or dispelling/i use them to break the spell..[that they hold over all of us...[did i spell all that out properly]

dont get cast..under the spell of words
could i spell it out more clear

words are mans-invention
the intent of their spell-ing
isnt allways clear
what means that word
falling so gently on our ear

see hiden in words
their real meaning is much like ban-king
some are for explaining..[others for wan-king]

Sorry PAL1, needs must:-

Guys... is there a way to private mail Graham? DoCS are hunting me and using the care and protection act to request all my posts off other sites. I don't even know if it is legal.

...if DoCS don't lock me up or something.
Posted by Jewely, Saturday, 23 May 2009 8:37:14 PM
__________________________________

1) First off Jewels: contacting Graham:-

Run the scroll up/down bar right to the bottom of the page. You will see a yellow bar running across the bottom (below it a black bar-the last one on the page). On the yellow bar is "Feedback",-click on that to contact Graham.

2) Have you received written confirmation from DoCS that they are tracking your posts? How do you know that they are? (If they have not notified you;-what they're doing is illegal). If they have notified you, take a copy and email it to the Council for Civil Liberties. They are not entitled to do this. It is only something that can be done by Police, and THEY have to be careful.

3) They do not have to 'request your posts'. All they need to do is copy/paste them. Which is what a Webmaster would tell them I suspect.

4) How do they know what sites you are on?

5) If you are CERTAIN they are tracking you, without any due cause,-One of the simplest things to do, is to go public,-contact the media. But make damn sure you have nothing to hide, and are fully prepared to defend any allegations against you.

Dear Pal01,
Going by the clap trap resulting from your earnest questions you have absolutely no fear of being considered undereducated on this forum.
Firstly the show is there for everyone despite the fact that a few tend to make use of the turnout to their own ends.
Did you really want to know what happened to someone’s deceased cat when you began the thread?

Yours is a rather well put together comment you’ve scripted there with few typos.
I find that interestin’.

But to answer yours –

Re your 1 –
Now if you want a topic to soar over your head, then you’ve come to the right place.
These guys here, though generally stuck on the ground with the turkeys, let their minds soar with the vultures. I bet their table manners are equally bad.
It was suggested to me today that this could be the result of what some of ‘em smoke.

Re your 2 –
It is a fact that most humans cannot actually ‘see in their mind’s eye’ more than a certain number of discrete items. In other words – shut their eyes and actually ‘see’, say, five individual randomly placed apples within their consciousness.
Tricks can be applied like stacking the objects in ranks x rows (as we do with soldiers, etc) but even then most are defeated much past twenty without causing sweat.
I know this has nothing much to do with ‘Home and Away’ which, I guess, proves me as bad as those to which I’ve referred.

Your last lines.
If you don’t like the circle you run in, then try a Mobius Strip –
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Möbius_strip
Essentially the social experiment will last at least twice as long but beware you may not be able to get off afterwards.

Hey Ginx,
“2) Have you received written confirmation from DoCS that they are tracking your posts? How do you know that they are? (If they have not notified you;-what they're doing is illegal). If they have notified you, take a copy and email it to the Council for Civil Liberties. They are not entitled to do this. It is only something that can be done by Police, and THEY have to be careful.”

A caseworker came to see me last week and said Queensland had rung NSW after receiving a complaint I had uploaded photos of foster children online. They wont find any photo or even a name of any foster child from me.

I was left unsure of what I had been accused of.

Then on Altnews site he received a fax requesting all my posts and any uploaded photos along with four other users. One is a Canadian talking about radio-waves and I don’t know who the other three are.

“3) They do not have to 'request your posts'. All they need to do is copy/paste them. Which is what a Webmaster would tell them I suspect.”
Yes the Altnews webmaster is a bit annoyed, might be why he posted the DoCS request in public.

“4) How do they know what sites you are on?”

My big mouth and I am Jewely everywhere. Some sites have my photo for an avatar thing.

“5) If you are CERTAIN they are tracking you, without any due cause,-One of the simplest things to do, is to go public,-contact the media. But make damn sure you have nothing to hide, and are fully prepared to defend any allegations against you.”

I don’t think they have to defend it, a anon phone call is all it takes with care and protection considering a child could be at risk from harm.

OUG pointed out that it may be a fake request but the phone number on the request does lead back to DoCS in NSW. If the webmaster over there wasn’t so friendly I wouldn’t have even known about it.

Thank you for the help, I have some in-built fear of pushing those little symbols or anything really without absolutely understanding what it is going to do.

Hey I made my daughter believe if you type “google in to “google” you will bring down the internet. Weeks later she made a friend do it then came in and told me how stupid I was.

“but one of my regrets is..illegable handwriting..[but no use handwringing about the issue]..if i was edumacated..i wouldnt be as opinionated..[because]..all my dis-opinion would have been masticated from my mind by the re-education..[higher education]..lol..process”

You can write? I went to primary school in the few years that print script was in and missed out on learning how to write properly. Mind you I went to 8 primary schools and it was only discovered when I was nearly nine that I couldn’t read a word. Proper writing is supposed to be unreadable isn’t it?

Cool poem. You know when I found out that there is no word for “please” in Afrikaans I think I grasped a few more things wrong with the world. In Suadi I heard yala yala (scuse spelling) all the time “hurry hurry” and also “shway shway” slow slow”. There is a confused people.

“god it must be great..to be really edumacated..[ie knowing how to properly spellout..the words i choose to use..[instead of continually trying to spell out the meanings of the words/im conciously mangeling]”

You have no idea how long a reply takes me, usually I do it in word and then it takes twice as long to go correct the spelling.

I am so gonna get the gold star for most uneducated user and rub it in all your faces!

please in africanse = asseblief

http://translation.babylon.com/English/to-Afrikaans
sorry i just cant take peoples word for anything
anyhow lateline is on

tot siens

"please in africanse = asseblief
http://translation.babylon.com/English/to-Afrikaans
sorry i just cant take peoples word for anything"

I did, feel a bit stupid now. There better be a language where they don't have a word for please. Whole theories around this belief are in turmoil.

Actaully they probably still hold, just that words affect how we think since we do think in words. Okay I do.

Kind of even relates back the whole blue collar feeling, probably think in smaller words. Doesn't make the thought any less important but may mean when it is expressed others see it with less importance.

That click language (Rift Valley type place) is (shakey ground again -National Geographic told me so) the language in the world with more words, expressions than any other.

"anyhow lateline is on
tot siens"

What is lateline? You know that language thing wouldn't convert that back.

I think we have got to ask ourselves are lawyers angels or demons? Do we really need them at all? Blue Collar opinions should count, and we should restore the Magna Carta and give back to the ordinary people, the blue collar workers as well as the white collar ones the full right to express their opinions in a way that really counts, as a member of a jury panel.

A major event of the nineteenth century, was the admission of lawyers to Parliament after 498 years. This happened in 1870. It took them a further 100 years to become our Gods, Lords and Masters. It is unconstitutional for any person to become a Judge. The word Judge, is absent from S 79 Constitution, and federal jurisdiction should not be exercised by a Judge, but since we are all now compulsory Roman Catholic citizens, and no longer subjects of Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second I suppose we should just get used to it.

The word judges used in S 79 Constitution, is plural, and meant two Justices of the Peace, or a jury in a court, in 1900, but the demons who populate the Courts of Australia as Judges, are either unable to read, or addicted to money, or both.

Pierre Schlag describes judging as violence against another human being. He lives in a democracy where juries still rule as of right. The violence that Judges do not only to us, but to their own when they are brought up for sentencing, as they did to Einfeld, is done in direct contradiction of what should be a binding statute. Since 1275, a Justice was required to offer a choice, a fine or a jail term. Since we are now governed by Roman Catholics, choice is not given. Was it a demonic act to bash and rape all those kids in Ireland? It certainly put fear in their minds, but was it fear of God, or the demons into whose care they were placed. Don’t you think it is time we considered ending the lawyer inflicted reign of terror in Australia

africans to english
http://www.stars21.com/translator/english_to_afrikaans.html
lateline is a poor current affairs program[mostly repeating the stuff from 7.30 report..but it gives me a break from posting..lol

we are often conned to do the right thing..[but often for the wrong reason]...lol...spiritually it isnt that important what we do [but why we do..thats why we get lied to...

see that spiritually speaking,two people doing the same thing may have totally different reasons for doing the same thing..[one might be spiritually valid..[the other spiritually invalid]

how it was put to me is say you planned to murder...but in the end didnt,..by act no murder took place..BUT..[but one decided it was wrong,.the other didnt get the oppertuinity]

think of it as like..feeding the fatted calf..[one feeds..to feed the calf..[the other feeds to eat it in time..same act but different motivations...thats why its written..its what a man thinketh in his heart

never feel stupid..thats just so dumb...lol...till we know the will to do better we simply didnt know..you must remember the system thrives on keeping us ignorant of the real way of things...[take giving people unemployment benifit,..seemingly good to help others..but it also allows the aid mentality..and extra tax to..pay' for it..[and corperate-welfare costs 10 times unemployment..'benefit']

like take rent assistance..[it largly allows more rent to be paid to the rich landlords]...the rent'assistance'..goes straight to the landlord,..were there no..'assistance'..then the market would bring the rent down..[renters can only afford what they can afford]..giving govt aid isnt assisting the poor renter

your right..[in my opinion..lol]..that us dumies have much to offer[but we are so dumb we give our ideas for free][i did 11 years of formal education[in 11 different school[in two countries]comming from imagrant stock i spoke no english before starting school[thus think in dutch]then did three years in english[then went 'back home' and finished primary school in dutch[then came back and did 4 years in english..

but thats what i chose..when i chose to incarnate with my parental;units,..that was the spi-ritual cause behind my physical being..[expanding on the theory we each chose our life's mission, thus actually get a life revieuw BEFORE we are born,and accept the mission..[for the teachings inherant,in living each of our lives[as bad/good as they may seem, each bit has its teaching

the good/bad/neutral events that result in our life lessons..from our lifes experiences]..see..we each are all needed..to tell the whole learning inherant in living..[were you never born[or i]..or any else of the others..the bits we didnt do..would leave the whole life-story[of creation in its totality]..incomplete...

language is but a part of our life story..[but what are words without meaning]..or salt that has lost its flavour

[the eskimo's have over 70 words for snow..[the most important is dont eat yellow snow]..[if its white its all right]..lloll

The language in which there is no word for "please" (or for thank you) is Zulu which is an African language.

Don't feel silly: most people don't realise that Afrikaans is the language originally evolved and spoken by the (white) settlers (who then imposed it on everyone and made it a pre-requisite for employment)and is like a dialect of Dutch.

A lot of people assume "Afrikaans" means "African" and so think "Afrikaans language" (or people or food or whatever) is referring to African language/people/food/whatever. Its a very common error because its a bit confusing.

It also, back in the day, used to drive the Afrikaans (white) people mental to be mistaken for African (black).

ps. Also of interest: although Chinese languages have Please and Thank You they are only used very rarely - and never between family members or friends. (Or, I might add, teachers and students!)

“ps. Also of interest: although Chinese languages have Please and Thank You they are only used very rarely - and never between family members or friends. (Or, I might add, teachers and students!)”

Is this because the respect is assumed? Or is it something to do with it not being required as the closeness between a family group and a teaching group make it more along the lines of “of course I will help or give to one of my own” and a please or thank you would almost seem rude like a reminder of closeness forgotten?

In NZ the Maori wave is used (hello, goodbye, thanks, I see you). Err… quick and slight raise of the head along with eyebrows.

Big men do it often... a big guy will walk in to a pub or be out in public and will do it to another big fella. It is like a social acknowledgment saying “yeah we look about equal so lets agree to not scare anyone by facing off eh mate”.

I watched Hubby and a big black fella (looked Samoan to me) do it in the local mall the other day. It is so common in NZ that I hadn’t noticed that I hadn’t seen it for awhile.

Teenage boys in NZ, shake hands each time they meet, often do a quick hug and clasp hands and pat backs in a quick embrace. I think my son missed that, the local boys don’t have a close greeting. Quick hand shake when introduced for the first time here.

Females everywhere seem pretty much the same, women here seem to kiss a lot on each cheek for a greeting like English women do, freaked me out. My caseworker is an aboriginal lady and I love that she will park up on the playroom floor with me to talk while children play around us like a Maori woman would.

What language do you think in Romany?
OUG?
Everyone?

It is normally the topics that can't be proven scientifically or otherwise that produces the most intellectual snobbery. Man made climate change, evolution and abortion are good cases in point. Whenever academics know the public smell a rat they dress up their words in a language to exclude the common man. Jesus Himself was a carpenter and yet he revealed the corruption among the religous and academic giants of the day. His simple profound teachings to this day is not matched by anyone or anything. I am sure He would make the many god haters and deniers today look as silly as He did when He was on earth.

WOW!...

Thanks everyone for your comments. Very entertaining to read, as well as informative.

I wasn't trying to dig a sympathy hole for myself, just wanted to see what people thought about it this topic.

Thanks heaps though..

its quite revealing that the powers that be use words[or rather prefere US to use limited words]..having limited our ability to express or comprehend..[see how im even having trouble finding the right words to decribe the scam]

see that its a deliberated policy..de-liberated dumbing down..[im trying to paraphrase a guest on alex jones..[first hour today]basiclly he reveals the aim to to authenticate and validate into our minds buzz words..[in lue of giving us desriptive words]

thus we get words..that dont allow us to decribe anything but feelings or events[..emoting words]..we all know of the destractoion of we-pens of mass-destraction..[ooops sorry de-struction]

and buzz-words like natural selection..[or conspiricy theory]..words that emote but hardly explain[how genus evloves into a new genus..[or how bankers are controling govt via lending their own money to them

i guess its easier to explain how they do it..[by reading animal farm[or cantabury tales,..ie by imprinting word concepts that set up a preconditioned response..[like how many realise my brother jack directly sets us up for all the anzac mythology]via..sentiments/platitudes..that hide the real horror of millions of kids dying in war

anyhow i outlined the concept as best i am able..[its sad to see the topic close..[im also sad the origonal poster didnt have more to reveal..i would have loved for you to respond to the posts we posted

[mate you can talk here]..you cant just absorb everything we say..[make us explain..[make them explain,..you dont need to teach them..[you need to question them,..so they need to think about what they are saying..[help them to realise what they said..didnt sound logical or wasnt really saying anything

Jewely, Yeah, you're exactly right about why the Chinese don't say please and thank you to each other. Unfortunately for many Westerners, however, niether are terms used very much even in the community at large, and so the impression of rudeness is often mistakenly gained.

The Zulu also think along the same lines - and in a traditionally much less materialistic society its much easier to understand why.

I think these days in English, but for a while did so (and dreamed) in French and, as a small kid, in Arabic.

Although, like many families, we had a sort of family language with words and phrases that were a mixture of malapropisms, quotes, words from different languages and childhood mispronunciations (like a Supermarket is always a stupidmarket and a spider a pie-dew etc).

Once I grew up enough to realise not everyone understood this I learned to temper what I said for public consumption - but when I think I still do so in this sort of weird mixture so that if anyone were truly to read my mind they would probably think I was the village idiot!

“Although, like many families, we had a sort of family language with words and phrases that were a mixture of malapropisms, quotes, words from different languages and childhood mispronunciations (like a Supermarket is always a stupidmarket and a spider a pie-dew etc).”

That is so cool Romany. Dreaming in French actually sounds like the most restful language to sleep through.

How many languages do you know?

In my family it is freaky words and accents. We still used the odd Arabic word like shway shway. Hubby still says some nasty stuff to me in Arabic that horrified my Arabic neighbours one day. Not that we ever spoke the language just knew enough to get by. Actually I still have no idea what he is saying to me.

(phonetic: al shalmoota?) Can you tell me? I know it’s rude as it is always in response to me saying some dude on TV is cute or something. He was in Saudi a lot longer than me, funny how he thought he was the boss for about 5 minutes after getting off the plane.

A visiting caseworker was amazed that every single foster child (out of 7) had a different accent. Me with a heavy R sound (like a yank), hubby Kiwi, son uses Maori words cause he’s a show off and my daughter sounds more Aussie than your average Aussie.

Our family all speak in a strange non descriptive way and without looking in anyones eyes. We have learnt to do this so as to discuss a child without letting the child know to avoid any hurt feelings.
“oh that little short blonde thing returned with certain livestock on scalp and if anyone was clever they would go check for themselves probably before doing anything much else really”.

And no one reacts immediately. Actually I could scream that the house on fire and my family would sit their making sure a kid didn’t think we were discussing them.

“see that spiritually speaking,two people doing the same thing may have totally different reasons for doing the same thing..[one might be spiritually valid..[the other spiritually invalid]
how it was put to me is say you planned to murder...but in the end didnt,..by act no murder took place..BUT..[but one decided it was wrong,.the other didnt get the oppertuinity]
think of it as like..feeding the fatted calf..[one feeds..to feed the calf..[the other feeds to eat it in time..same act but different motivations...thats why its written..its what a man thinketh in his heart”

Well that’s where I go wrong then… what I mean and what I write seems to clash a lot.

You are talking “intent” rather than the end result? That’s a lawyer/judge thing isn’t it... Whether someones act was proven intentional means another 10 – 20 years sort of thing? Then if the intention was for their own benefit or someone elses? 10 – 20 years off?

“never feel stupid..thats just so dumb...lol...till we know the will to do better we simply didnt know..you must remember the system thrives on keeping us ignorant of the real way of things...[take giving people unemployment benifit,..seemingly good to help others..but it also allows the aid mentality..and extra tax to..pay' for it..[and corperate-welfare costs 10 times unemployment..'benefit']”

Lost me completely OUG… govt would prefer people unemployed? What is Corporate Welfare? I do remember as a teen being unemployed, had to get up and ring err… someone from some department each morning and tell them what I was doing that day to find work. Gawd they were strict, if late with the call I had to go in to the office. Wonder if it was just me, I certainly felt picked on.

But yes, if I was going to have to get up anyway stuff it, might as well earn more.

I hate snow, yellow or otherwise.

coorperat welfare is govt gifts/subsidies it gives to big buisnes like gm getting gifts to retool[or that magnesia plant that was given half a billion each by howard and beaty,or govt subsidy for drugs[the subsidy ..just..for stroke medication is over one billion[and its affects is the same as smoking a puff from a joint]

anyhow the corperate welfare is huge,consuming 2/3 rd of govt expenditure...re the intent thing that i was speaking of is spiritually speaking...angels use precice terminology[much like the escimos re types of snow]..and much like lawyers...its about being precice[but our leaders donr like us to have this precice-ness thus teach is emotive generalities]

the unemployment issue was to highlight the ammount govt gives to its mates..[like rent assistance ALL goes to the landlord,...were there no rent assistance rent would have to be lower[as we would have less to pay rent,its basic market economics,..we may get a wage increase[but everything just goes up in price]

when govt effectivly lowerd the wages by non indexation[the ritch contracted wages, not govt controled doubled,but the poor wages eroded..its not important for everyone to understand it..i was just making the points for those who do

the other point you raised was simply some beuro-roc-rat having his jollies pushing arround kids..on a previous point..i think in pictures,my writing is just about writing into words the images my mind sees,..

it gets complicated because much of the imagry is feelings,..opinions and assosiations..derived from/ or asosiated with the imagry..when i read its a reversal;..the words form imagry/feeling's/memories and assosiations...much like vivid dreaming..[i often feel im only channeling/interpritating the info i make into words

“coorperat welfare is govt gifts/subsidies …welfare is huge,consuming 2/3 rd of govt expenditure...”

Oh… so not good or bad just is what it is?

“re the intent thing that i was speaking of is spiritually speaking...angels use precice terminology[much like the escimos re types of snow]..and much like lawyers...its about being precice[but our leaders donr like us to have this precice-ness thus teach is emotive generalities]”

I learnt this recently in DoCS meetings. I accuse and they neither confirm nor deny but say things like “oh don’t think that Julie”. Cannot get them to be precise.

“the unemployment issue was to highlight the ammount govt gives to its mates..[like rent assistance ALL goes to the landlord,...were there no rent assistance rent would have to be lower[as we would have less to pay rent,its basic market economics,..we may get a wage increase[but everything just goes up in price]”

How does this benefit the government/country?

“when govt effectively lowered the wages by non indexation[the rich contracted wages, not govt controled doubled,but the poor wages eroded..its not important for everyone to understand it..i was just making the points for those who do”

Oh google is going to ban me. Or start paying you… indexation?

"it gets complicated because much of the imagry is feelings,..opinions and assosiations..derived from/ or asosiated with the imagry..when i read its a reversal;..the words form imagry/feeling's/memories and assosiations...much like vivid dreaming..[i often feel im only channeling/interpritating the info i make into words"

I get it, well I don’t a lot of the time, but love reading it as it has a certain cadence that is just about addictive. When I started I had to print out your replies to read them better… now I just enjoy all of it.

Indexation is to automaticly adjust income payments by means of a price index,in order to maintain purchasing power at or abouve inflation...effectively transfers the risk of inflation from the payee to the payor,..who must pay more each year to reflect the increases in prices..inflation indexation is often applied to pension payments,rents,wages..but even to payments like/electicity/services/insurance

any payment may be indexed to inflation..[yet rarely deflation]...not indexing pensions..for egsample..saves govt expenditure[allowing them to give more to their mates[or tuckaway into the govt super sceme[for public servants]

sorry im so dificult to understand..[a lot of stuff is much easier to understand in our mind, as imagry..[but more dificult to explain into words]or on to a public forum..also we all have different life experiences..that again complicates things..i spent a lot of my life explaining things to my kids..my wife is one of those who dont even try to explain

i gave up trying to explain this sort of stuff to my family[and no doudt will soon give up explaining it on forums[people really dont want to know..and most of the info comes 2 de/or even 3 rd hand,it just jells with my own life experience

[but had my life been different i guess it would sound unbelievable..[thats why i tell people to do their own research..[and not get angry at the info,we cant hope to change..anger/fear they just cant change anything,i was driven to find out and did..[found out more than i wanted to know,..but once you know it obligates..perhaps more spiritually than physicly..[spiritually im appaled]..but aware they only stain their own souls

"any payment may be indexed to inflation..[yet rarely deflation]...not indexing pensions..for egsample..saves govt expenditure[allowing them to give more to their mates[or tuckaway into the govt super sceme[for public servants]"

Public servants are people who work the government?

“..i spent a lot of my life explaining things to my kids..my wife is one of those who dont even try to explain”

I think my hubby feels the same way about me, he’s probably happy I found someone to explain this stuff to me.

“i gave up trying to explain this sort of stuff to my family[and no doudt will soon give up explaining it on forums[people really dont want to know..and most of the info comes 2 de/or even 3 rd hand,it just jells with my own life experience”

I think I just didn’t know what was jelling with mine until I started asking. My son and I had a huge discussion last night – could have come straight out of the “sports sex scandal” thread. Same topic and him repeating what most people in that thread were saying about the woman. But he’s a kid still and maybe will learn that these situations are not so black and white.

“,..but once you know it obligates..perhaps more spiritually than physicly..[spiritually im appaled]..but aware they only stain their own souls”

Yes. I got a lot of information recently about DoCS and NGO’s. I am disgusted with this female run department and their sister organizations. None of it pointed to the children being of any priority.

I am tempted to start a thread but I never see anyone on here talking about kids so don’t feel it would go far beyond me bleating and demanding the females get out and let the men in.

jewel<<I am tempted to start a thread but I never see anyone on here talking about kids so don’t feel it would go far beyond me bleating and demanding the females get out and let the men in.>>i have put forward may discussions..only 3 ever got through..[mostly grayham says he dosnt comprehend what im saying]

but on the kids issue..females shouldnt..let go control of the kids[those femail in the pubic service are under orders of men..[thus they try to outdo that the men taught them...also woman..simply speaking can get away with child stealing..a man simply speaking cant take a child from its mother..but these female public-servants can

it used to be cops that took kids...but we lost trust in cops..so they brought in females..to do the intermediate work of taking the kids,..but its a very messy issue..[so much self intrest..[about adults needs ..not enough for the kids needs,..but such is as it is

all i know is i see a guy in the park with kids..and automaticlly think pervert..[it must be a social preconditioning,..yet i see a mother and child playing and think how great]..none of us is perfect so with kids i feel better to err on the side of caution[my abuser was a male]

even after i grew up its males making the laws that send me to jail..[ok female judges are now doing the sentancing in court, but its mens rules they follow

Yes, only overseas did my children get to play and have fun with other grown males and it was seen as normal. Us two seem to have rather big problems with our own genders.

OUG, we do clash here. I believe the women have made a dangerous mess of it. They may be following Acts made by men but the culture within their department has been distorted over time where the care and protection of children, from what I have experienced, is non-existent priority within management.

The caseworkers, the ones under all other managers are left struggling, most of them still care and are in contact with the children that they have concern for but are powerless.

These women in management do not personally and physically inflict harm on the children themselves within the department and associated organisations. But the harm I have seen is immense and soul destroying to the children. Many children and still going.

To be a witness to children suffering, to hear of more children suffering and to watch the caseworkers suffer because of what they are made to participate in…

I think we need to find the men, the women have lost focus and the children are lost.

At Hillsong Church, they teach that we are born males, but have to learn to be men. They have a program teaching males how to be good husbands and fathers, and even have referrals from Magistrates to them instead of sending first offenders to prison. Not all magistrates are bad. They are like the women Jewel complains about, decent people doing a nasty job for a heartless State.

We also have a program for the female victims of the system, and we occasionally hear tearful testimonies, from women who have turned their lives around, with help from other women, and the teachings of the Holy Bible. Some of us are really lucky and had great fathers, who loved and cherished their wife, and between them gave their children a safe and loving environment to grow up in. Others are not so blessed.

I know a woman with four kids under 12, two girls and two boys, and every time I see them I am so pleased. She is a wonderful mother, and loves her kids fiercely. Unfortunately, her man is sometimes affected by a condition requiring medication, but I see no affect on the little ones. He is difficult, but works hard, so she stays with him. However her kids are always well dressed, look well fed, even though they accept an offer for a Maccas any time it is given. They are doing well at school too.

I met her at Uni, when she was still a student, and we have stayed friends. She confided in me the rough childhood she experienced, with an abusive stepfather, or two. Her mother had an awful taste in men, it seems, and left her father when she was about four. Now she has four of her own, and is doing a great job. I hear so many tales of abuse. It is not only children, but old people too who are maltreated. If blue collar opinions were made important, by the restoration of proper courts with judges, and total and free access to them, I could teach anyone how to help others.

I don’t think anyone really understands that we as Australians, adopted the scripture from Isaiah 9 verse 6, where the Lord promised a leader called, Wonderful, Counsellor, The Might God, The Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, and his ever expanding peaceful government will never end.

Central to that good government was reliance on blue collar opinions. The leader given was a carpenter. That is a real blue collar profession, but at the same time he was a Rabbi, called Master, and learned in the laws to an amazing degree. We are told it was because he was a regular church attendee, and by the age of twelve, was teaching and amazing people.

When he came and told the Jews of whom he was a leader, they were doing it wrong, they got really annoyed, but he stayed around long enough, to teach the New Covenant to his followers. They are contained in the Gospels, and they are there so blue collar opinions are informed opinions. That is why I urge anyone who will listen to come to church. In Church they still tell the yarns that used to fill churches completely. They tell them with flair and with great talent at Hillsong in Sydney, and now in Brisbane, and the lesson is always scripturally based.

I get really ticked off with dishonesty. Jesus Christ taught that the truth will set you free, and it should. It would if we did not have a bunch of pagan Judges, who think they know better than He did, and left it to blue collar opinions to decide who the liar was in the court. I read a great yarn recently about a liar, represented by a lawyer, in a Judge only Court. The plaintiff was representing himself, was a very powerful Italian, and picked up a chair to brain the defendant with if he continued to lie. Judge got upset but the defendant fessed up, and stopped lying. Can anyone else see how dishonest it is for a Judge to pretend he is judges, and exclude blue collar opinion

What do we celebrate on Anzac Day? It is not the efforts of the officers, it is the efforts of the predominantly private soldier, who left wife, parents and loved ones, and volunteered, and in some cases was conscripted, to go and fight for an ideal. The wars we sent them to, were not about territory, they were about ideas. The right held dear, to live in peace.

The difference between the Aussie Digger, and the English Tommy, was that predominantly the Aussie went to fight willingly, while lots of the Tommy’s went because the enemy behind was worse than the enemy in front. The English though, were essentially a Protestant Christian Army. The war we are fighting now is even harder to comprehend. It is essentially a class war. Are we to accept the rule of a small ridiculously well paid Officer Corps, with an army of enforcers, or do we have a Constitution that guarantees the Blue Collar Opinions, count.

Christianity is all about infantry. Christian soldiers on the ground. Atheists and secularists would confine us to barracks, lock us in our increasingly deserted churches, Islamists would have us disciplined effectively for jihad, perpetual war, but Christians are breaking out, volunteering all over the world, to go and save souls, and feed the widows, and abandoned children. Doing what Jesus Christ asked them to. This is what Peter Sellick is saying. If you want to make a difference join a church. Find a church that is a fighting unit. A fighting unit that knows there is a war on. Join the infantry.

When blue collar opinion counted, Judges were kept in their proper place, as all good officers should be. No Judge, was ever allowed to pronounce a sentence, it was up to blue collar opinion. No government was ever allowed to make laws, unless those laws were ultimately enforceable by infantry; A twelve man squad, sworn on the Holy Bible to find the truth. The battleground between good and evil has always been a court, in English Constitutional thinking. Hup the Hinfantry. Hup the officers

“At Hillsong Church, they teach that we are born males, but have to learn to be men. They have a program teaching males how to be good husbands and fathers, and even have referrals from Magistrates to them instead of sending first offenders to prison. Not all magistrates are bad. They are like the women Jewel complains about, decent people doing a nasty job for a heartless State.”

Within the last week I have had two different young females near tears as they explain some situations around children I know or have known. No situation was previous to the children entering care. These women suffer and the older women are allowing the situations to continue or are responsible for them.

I am so pleased and relieved to have seen this honesty finally but confirming my fears leads to more fear for the children.

If people within a system are corrupt and even though there are still many good people within the system is it fair to announce the whole system as corrupt? Would I be right Legally? Morally? Ethically?

“Can anyone else see how dishonest it is for a Judge to pretend he is judges, and exclude blue collar opinion”

Do you mean the juries Peter?

WWII - I just read a whole lot of stuff about the Aboriginals and the war, how they were treated at the time around their citizenship. Not even considered blue collar.

When Kevin Rudd made his pitch for the Christian vote in two articles in OLO, and at the Australian Christian Heritage Forum, in August 2006, he made a pitch for the opinions of blue collar workers, as well as women, wives, mothers, the unemployed and homeless to be valued and considered. His pitch was rewarded, and instead of losing like atheist Mark Latham did, from the same poll position, seven weeks from an election, he won handsomely. Both were seven points ahead in the opinion polls seven weeks out.

It is now just over 18 months since that successful takeover of government was effected. However we still have the government he replaced. We still have a Federal Court where blue collar opinions mean nothing, because you are never asked for your opinion there. The same Court is still racist, sexist, discriminatory, exclusive, and elitist. It is still unwilling to deal with issues with a fair just and impartial tribunal of fact, drawn and made up from the community, including blue collar workers.

Pile that on top of State Courts where ordinary people no longer have any influence, and whose opinions are never taken, and Australia is a disaster zone. If the opinions of blue collar workers were required, before any court could legislate, was restored, Gillard would not have needed to repeal work choices. They would have been thrown out by the common law, and the common sense of blue collar opinions.

Legislation is all made in a court. Parliament is a court, as Justice McHugh said in the Kable case, (1996) and legislation is made by every Judge against an individual, with every decision made. Blue collar opinion hates corruption and bullying. No Parliament in Australia has been authorized since 1900, to create a Court. A court is the separation of powers, a Court is the merger into one man, of a Legislative body. To keep the true believers, KR must repeal S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and disallow some exclusive regulations or his Christian majority will evaporate. You blokes with blue collars are pure treasure