Mal Fraser rode motorcycles.
The previous Defence Minister did so too.
I can't afford one now and have to drive a Holden shitbox with a clapped-out Isuzu engine.
Believe me when I say that my circumstances disgust me.
What hope is there for a bloke who used to ride the highways free - (except for the hate of the Qld police).
Perhaps it is time to brake the tendency of out State laborites of their downward dive towards 'Wowserism'.
To put the turnout into perspective - Not even the Bjelke Petersen lot stooped so low as to attack what amounts to nothing more than a citizen's choice of transport or that set of civil society they may choose to associate with.

What we need, is legislation hurried through, to stop Footballers congregating in motel rooms.

It is a pretty powerful statement, that a particular type of social club is being singled out these days. Today it's bikie gangs (and, granted, many of these organisations have little to do with the love of motorbikes and more to do with thuggish and organised crime); who will it be tomorrow? Women's groups? I've heard that CWA meetings can get a bit nasty - maybe we should launch an inquiry into them? What about junior soccer clubs? When you see the parents screaming at their kids from the sidelines, you can see that they are promoting child abuse. And I once heard of a neighbourhood watch meeting that almost descended into vigilante violence against renters. Maybe it's time to review the rights of neighbourhoods to meet to discuss security issues?

Singling out bikie gangs may solve a few problems, but the reality is that motorcyclists aren't the only people in the world who may have a tendency to commit crimes.

Non Farmer, I don’t get it. Bikie gangs are being targeted, but bike riders per se are not. You are as free to ride as you ever were, just not as part of a gang, right?

Why do you hate the Queensland police?

Happen to see that OTOKONOKO has a grasp upon reality.
I'd suggest that the Anglican Mother's Union may have some retrospective concerns about why their sons ended up queer.
As for bikers and antisocial behaviour - the onion, the gang-bang, (layer upon layer was once a popular pastime) but in my locality the major players (the girls and boys who actually put-out) had to be shared amongst the bikers, the seaweeds, the surf lifesaving clubs, the footy clubs, the fishermen, the 'builders' the unions, the police, firies, ambos, the local farmer’s association, clergymen, city elders, businessmen, and the masonic lodge.
God’s sake when we said a close knit community – we meant it. We all met Wednesday morning and shared notes at the pox-doctor.
It has only been in more recent times that ‘women of affairs’ have also entered this affray.

Wasn’t much else to do here on Sat’dy night back then - other than ‘throw the train’.
Hellfire, this is CENTRAL QLD and entertainment is at premium!

This is the sort of stuff that leads communities to resort to what the wowsers call crime.
It IS NOT crime. It is a lost society behaving badly in result of losing contact with the NATION.
Once past it may have been excused.
However the much censored media proves that, especially with sportsmen, the whole show is folding. The hate and misery continues and parents well know that their handsome adolescent kids continue to be unsafe in those special arrangements at the tail end of public functions.
I shall answer LUDWIG’S next.

Dear Ludwig,
You suggest in your response that I hate police?
Forgive me for being startled by your comment.

Police ‘persons’ tend to be subverted, indoctrinated – ‘bent’ is a more simple word describing the conditions of their temporary contract of employment to the state.

That doesn’t stop ‘em from feeling pain after work or retiring early because they can’t handle the system.
The reverse of that coin forces ‘police’ to cause innocents to suffer endless outrage.
The cop ends his/her shift; yet by their everyday action someone, somewhere, is ‘harvested’ in order to make another statistic on police’s file.
It is just another figure on the face of the heartless record of ‘corporate QLD’.

If you look at this industry site – you’ll see equipment designed and produced by my enterprise to save the lives of police –
www.users.bigpond.com/pdunnprs/

Mind you it does concern me that police do have factions within their establishment who have suggested that they are incensed by the need to provide equipment designed specifically to prevent them from accidentally shooting their colleagues when they are ‘playing with their pistols’ on government property. (The readers might have some insight as to what I mean.)

But to respond to yours –
No I don’t exactly hate police.
I just hate what the state makes police employees do.
When I speak with individuals of that service they usually wholeheartedly agree with me.

If you cry when you see how much money is stolen from you in taxes, remember that before the revolution in 1970, taxes were very low. It could be low, and was low because a huge amount of revenue came from fines and up to half the Crown budget was collected from criminals. That is criminals like the Motorcycle Clubs. Nah, the corporate criminals.

The Supreme Court Act 1970 is the Act that disestablished Christianity as a system in New South Wales. It created two justice systems, one for ordinary people and one for alleged criminals. The one for ordinary people, who were in dispute, was put in charge of Judges. This is the system that worships Baal. (Parliament) It sacrifices people to their God, lives are destroyed arbitrarily, and people are traded like cattle by lawyers and public servants. The Supreme Court Act 1970 repealed forty Acts, that gave us freedom, and put us under lawyers rule. Queensland went rotten in 1991.

S 6 says: Inconsistency with rules: Any Act in force immediately before the commencement of this Act, which is inconsistent with the rules, shall be superseded to the extent of such inconsistency and while such inconsistency continues to exist. The Federal Court uses rules the same way.

In this way New South Wales repealed the Australian Constitution. This is a revolution for which we are all paying on a daily basis. It was done by the Liberal Party. It was payback for donations from organised crime. It allows lawyers to buy and sell people, and destroy people’s lives without redress.

From 1275, and a law that is still in force in Victoria, ( they went the same in 1986) it was possible for anyone except for murder and treason, to elect to pay a fine instead of going to jail. This was good business, and kept petty crims working. It was much cheaper to get a fine than imprison people. Instead you now pay taxes to send them to jail. Government monkey business, by monkeys and not Good Government, as for the Police, they are simply slaves.

Dear Non-Farmer
Could you be more speciffic as to the town you are from as, if I ever get the urge to do a 'road trip' to the 'outback' then I most certainly would like to by-pass your town as I would hate to think I may catch what you have.

Thank god for foxtel hey!

Cheers

p.s. Is there anyone you don't hate?

Which State of Australia is going to be first to reintroduce Christianity as law again. Because of our unique Federation, the first State to institute accountability, and mandatory jury trials, as existed in Queensland until 1991, will be able to reduce taxes to almost zero, and get a huge revenue boost from imbeciles like the Judges of the Federal Court.

When exercising federal jurisdiction, any court anywhere in Australia has jurisdiction over the whole of Australia. This is s 15C Acts Interpretation Act 1901 ( Cth). If a member of a Motorcycle Club in New South Wales is persecuted by Police there, he could, until 1991, in Queensland sue the New South Wales constable in his personal capacity, in a court in Queensland, and have a guaranteed jury trial. This is because of S 118 Constitution.

The catch is it must be a court, not a Court. A Court is a place where a Judge presides. It is a Masonic Temple, where a man or woman, without reference to a higher power, buys and sell justice. How long will it be before the great Christian majority that elected Kevin Rudd, and refused to elect Mark Latham, wakes up to the fact that Christian is best. A court is Christian, a Court is pagan. A Judge cannot be a Christian too. He can go to church as many Sundays as he likes, and his priest can tell him he is forgiven, but the Book says, Judge not that ye be not judged. That applies to these simple minded fools just as much as to you and me.

Talk to the Cameron Dick. It might as well be Queensland. I would love to come back, and show this State how to shake heaps and heaps of money out of Canberra’s back pocket. It would be fun to shake lots of money out of New South Wales Police too. This is what the National Competition Policy Act 1995 was supposed to do. This is what John Howard feared. We do not need one new law, just an honest Attorney General

Non Farmer, you wrote;

“You suggest in your response that I hate police?
Forgive me for being startled by your comment.”

Startled?

I was responding to your comment:

“What hope is there for a bloke who used to ride the highways free - (except for the hate of the Qld police).”

Anyway, thanks for the response.

.
So, given that bikers are as free to ride as they have ever been, is it such a bad thing that restrictions be placed on them doing so as a gang or a club, when there is a well-known correlation between such organisations and organised crime?

It is inevitable that personal freedoms will be impinged upon and that some people will be affected that have nothing to do with crime. But then that’s the way of it with the law in general. When a small fraction of people act in an irresponsible manner, the rights of a large number of people are affected, either by the actions of those irresponsible people or by preventative lawful actions. That has to be the way of it in many situations, in order to keep the law relatively simple and manageable. It is all too often a very difficult balancing act.

So all considered, I think that strong affirmative action to greatly reduce organised crime within motorcycle gangs by way of abolishing the actual organisations is not an unreasonable course of action.

Non-farmer

I have a motorcycle license too - has your home been raided yet? Mine hasn't and I don't expect it to be any time soon. It is specific gangs of bikers that are being targeted, not the average joe/joanne. Try reading more than just headlines and stick to broadsheet rather than tabloids.

Pointless thread, dunno why I'm even bothering.

Non-farmer,
Are you a criminal ....I give up are you?
If you the person(s) who like to make as much noise with your bike regardless of the legal limit at 3 am ? The one photographed going through a red light camera at twice the legal or 3X speed past a school during hours(3X40ks)? The one photographed doing 185 k through a speed camera without plates? The one who exceed the speed limit by 40 ks then did a victory wheel stand mentioned in the paper? Ride wearing 'colours' of well known criminal gang?
And a thousand other sundry violations?
Or perhaps a proprietor of a meths lab, gun running, prostitution, stand over merchant etc.
If non of the above then maybe your victimized attitude is misplaced and Fractelle is offering sound advice.
Then again... we haven't covered all the other crimes like budgie smuggling or DRF (being Drunk and Refusing to Fight) :-)

Woo Hoo,
What funny responses!
Okay. 'Examinator' has to take the cake.
For your advice you should have read that I have a bike license but no longer have a bike.

No. At this stage of life I don't need a crotch rocket – nor am I a ‘veteran’, nor do I brew drugs – and most especially – though having the odd willing partner in my jaded life, nor was I ever interested in GANG RAPE!

Forgive me for laughing but again yesterday I was on the blower to the local cops pointing out that the local brats roaring past our local primary school SIDE-SADDLE, on their unregistered, unroadworthy dirt squirts, at knock-off time.
While meanwhile state government has just installed a power sub-station immediately beside the local kids skatebowl.
In this increasingly Kafka-esque world I’m increasingly confronted by those who refuse to understand concepts and recognize incongruity.

So stap me ‘Examinator’ you have me entirely at a disadvantage –

Fractelle,
Truth sometimes comes out of the mouths of babes.
Firstly, I don’t read headlines but I’m pleased you keep your scooter license.
I agree that you should refrain from bothering.
Does this mean what?
Perhaps handing in your card or quitting placing yourself as a statistic on our roads??

Non Farmer

Your response leaves me more perplexed than ever.

1. now you are complaining about hoons on dirt bikes.

2. You assume I ride a scooter? Why?

3. I have ridden motor bikes and not wound up as a statistic for over twenty years. So not about to hand in anything.

4. I guess from the complete lack of point to this topic you have raised that it is true, as you said you don't even bother with newspaper headlines, just hear-say.

5. Examinator's point was that unless you indulge in criminal behaviour like some biker gangs do, then you have nothing to fear from police.

6. Some advice for your next topic - actually have one.

Fractelle,

Spot on girl.
You ride a bike oooooooh I think I'm turned on(he he) ;-)
Down girl you're taking his topic personally.

Non farmer
Awww gee I was gonna tell my grand children I wrote to a real hood :-(
I just answered your headline question with a satirical bent.
If you read the Qld daily Murdoch All the points I raided were in that at the time with pickys All the camera issues were adults(?)Big bikes, Leathers etc.
We have a twerp who Zips around the streets on a midget bike with presumably his 3yo son perched on his knee, neither wears a helmet. This father 13/4 years on will wonder why his son is either a stat or a menace because of the duel attitude that the law is for other people and that tragedies only happen to others.
The fact that he wants to remove themself from the gene pool has its upside but it's those who they take with them I fear for.

Like I've said before unfortunately the laws in society are designed to catch the irresponsible (the lowest common denominator)and protect the rest of us from them. Equally sadly these dingbats/crims don't wear neon signs for identification or warnings.

Personally when I'm stopped I add insanity to the experience.
i.e. " blow in the bag? why are your chips too hot?" "Did it turn pretty colours go on show me " "it didn't? aww perhaps it's a dud bring over the box and I'll blow up all your balloons for you." etc
I get the odd laugh or grin and even "well at least it's better than being snarled at". "you know this get's boring" my responses are always friendly and we part having added a little difference to his/her day. See you don't have to ride a bike to be crazy.

Dear Fractelle,
Regarding motorcycles. I’ve always called mine scooters even when they were big bore machines.
I guess that I was trying to generate some reasoned comment about the paradox – that some in our society get to ride motorcycles and for all appearances seem like the classic style of outlaw biker – while a minority sometimes affect the appearance of being bikers while actually being more or less outlaws.
I don’t believe that too subtle for a reasonable person to think about and comment upon rationally.
After all I had understood what’s what this forum was about.

It has always struck me as absurd that ‘value judgements’ continue to be made based upon transport mode or dress.
Point being that I believe such erroneous and damaging judgements will crop up in various jurisdictions very soon.
My poor reading leads me to understand that civil liberties groups tend to agree with me.

These days there seems to be too many old farts in their second childhood attempting to recapture their youth.
Harley Davidson themselves are rather concerned about this aspect of market management.
So it is quite paradoxical that I find impatient youth emulating those good ol’ boys chuntering past on their crotch rockets and meanwhile breaking their necks and getting into trouble with the law – while those doing the legal chuntering, under their costumes are usually of the ‘professional class’.
Of course those good ol’ boys with the spare cash to splash on their Buell or Hardley don’t stop to think much about that.

Yep. Dual attitudes is what drives this Banana Republic.

I have a motorcycle licemce too, but I know I am not a criminal cause I am not a member of a '70's leather clad motif wearing heavily tatooed thug club funded by criminal activities.Freedom to ride? What is free about having to dress up like a w#nker in the middle of summer a clone of every other bikie thug?
Ewan McGregor and his mate Charlie rode the ultimate bike freedom journey across europe and asia to the usa, not once in the doco did they mention any affiliation to a bikie gang, there is nothing criminal about riding a bike unless you are yourself breaking the law in some way.
Yes the police should have the power to disolve all bikie gangs in australia, as too they should empower noise polution laws for engines that are too loud and disturb other members of society. They should give harsher penalties for speeding on our roads for bike riders and other vehicles.
Bike riders are not being discriminated against, gangs are being dealt with finally after such a long time operating outside society rules.
If you ride a bike and feel the need to join a club, how about Rotary or Lions and put something back into the community.

Double standards
I wonder if anyone has stopped to think about vulnerability?

Motorcycles are efficient transport but leave the rider vulnerable in many ways – to the weather, in collision with other vehicles, when the rider for any reason ends up falling off or, whether injured or not, nonetheless becomes a statistic.
Meanwhile their load carrying capacity is limited and the ability to conceal any payload/passengers also limited compared, say, to the passenger car.
.
As for interception by police, whether justified or not – the solo motorcyclist definitely has a hard time concealing a witness who might support his ‘facts relied upon’ in court.

It becomes difficult to understand why such a vehicle might therefore be one of choice at crime.
Here, on the internet, are quite a few sites where coppers admit that motorcyclists are easy targets for these reasons AND for their perceived socio-economic status once in court.

Motorcyclists, historically, do feature on the record and for especial attention from ‘Governance’.
As do, I submit, certain other equally vulnerable peer groups in this snakey, selfish, narrow, inflexible, stratified, utterly compromised, little society.

Non farmer look at it like this.
There are always duds behind a wheel or on a two wheeled coffin.
Likewise there are good police persons and well, less so. But to draw a line in the sand and say all police are like the ones who admit being lessor is more than a little unfair.

Bikes are used in crime because they can get away quicker...the pictures I referred to are of unidentifiable riders being that they didn't have license plates at the rear.
Not may cars can go where bikes can or as quickly.

Also understand that motorbike accident victims (riders)tend to be disproportionately represented in the "bones ward" requiring more treatment for longer and use up disproportionate amount of resources.

Like I said it's not their demise I worry about it's those they take with them. Two weeks ago a biker on a highway killed himself by traveling too fast took a corner wide on the wrong side of the road and collided with a car killing 3 people and in the car behind one, injuring 2 more. Those people didn't deserve to die etc.

Insurance actuary tables clearly show that accident are higher % wise than cars as are fatalities. In my mind when you buy any vehicle you pays your money and take your according chances.

My only bike regret is I've never had sex on one and now it's too bloody uncomfortable. :-)

God's sake!
This has all gone somewhat F.U.B.A.R.
Anyone know what that means?
I’m sure the VN Vet’s MC does!

I intended to draw a corollary; some sort of modern parable about the disenfranchised, the increasingly marginalized, in our society; the net effect of wowsers wrecking our Common Law and subsuming that under pretense of statutory law.

Behind me, on Radio National they blether about a movie, ‘Alvin Purple’, made when I was a young adult.
A bunch of old goats drooling out their lubricious memories while the well paid dames involved claim they never wanted to flash their juicy bits n’ tits on screen.

I’ve asked for a third party review of what I’d written in the rest of this W.O.F.T.A.M..
That auditor confirms that I’ve tried my best to bring the thread back on line in some creditable fashion.

I’ll repeat; it was about pointing out how bikers, the marginalized, the minority peer groups might easily become marginalized in our society.

It’s not as if most aren’t already.
But from here on in – that ‘Examinator’ can fantasize all he likes about playing with whatever ‘Fractelle’s permitted zones of engagement she may wish to deploy.
It most certainly is a learning curve – this dealing with the rub.

Dear Non Farmer,

When I was a teenager I had a crush on an
older guy who owned a motorcycle. It was
the love of his love - and he looked so
cool riding it. Then one day, he gave me
a ride on it - and I suddenly understood
why he loved the bike. Riding along on a
country road with the wind in your face,
as the bike ate up the highway - was pure
exhilaration.

A few months later this lovely man was involved in the
most dreadful accident that left him brain-damaged.

To this day, I still love motorcycles, but now
I'm scared of them.

I don't know much about "bikie gangs." But I
do remember seeing at least some of them doing
quite a bit for children's charities on the news,
sometime ago. I guess not everyone should be
tarred with the same brush. You have to take
people as you find them. There's bad apples in
every organisation.

cont'd

I forgot to add - I've got a tattoo
on my ankle - which was a birthday
present from my son, a few years back.

I remember when my son took me to have
it done - there were bikies waiting
there for ones they were getting done.
We all got to chatting and comparing
notes - and I felt silly at first - because
my tattoo was so tame in comparison to some
of theirs. But they encouraged me - and
treated me to a drink at the pub next door
after I'd had mine done.

Great guys!

non farmer,
Your question as written was answered in the first couple of posts.
The question doesn't have any depth. Have you seen the movie "Stone" or perhaps "the wild one" or the one with Peter Fonda and Jack the lad.
They all eulogize that bikers are out side the norm of society.
By definition they are already by choice marginalized.
Naturally the bulk population seen those outside two standard deviations of the mean as 'outsiders' and as such they are potential targets for discrimination.
So what is your point? that the media is as usual leading the lynch mob?

Everyone has the right to break the boundaries but like the man says 'there is no such thing as a free lunch" there is a cost for being outside the societal straight jacket.

My joke with Fractelle was a small side step but the bulk of my posts make the above point that bike riding is a personal decision to be different.
What did you expect? the question/ your opening statement was nebulous, emotionally assumptive and biased accordingly.

Non Farmer

Chill.

Now.

Some people are marginalised by circumstances beyond their control (illness, accident, etc) and some choose to live on the fringe (certain types of biker gangs, hippy communes etc).

Most motorcyclists are not the "Coffin Cheater" variety but people who love the responsive feel of a machine that answers to your slightest move - sigh. And most are law-abiding (even the scary looking ones as Foxy would attest).

If you are feeling marginalised by reasons beyond your control, then why did you not make that the basis of your opening post? I agree that many people are marginalised by media and the prejudice of others, all we can do is speak out for those who may be unable to speak out for themselves.

And why are you so angry at me? I call it like I see it, somehow this gets people really angry. I may stir a little but I am never offensive or malicious.

Examinator - sex on a bike? Only if it is stationary, otherwise - suicide man.

NO IT'S NOT! You have my word on THAT! 8-)

OK Maxi, only if you don't reach orgasm. Although I guess it depends on the orgasm - hurricane or drizzle.

Fractelle.
Suicide hey? What a way to go.....Sure beats Nembutal... I must remember that. ;-)

"I forgot to add - I've got a tattoo on my ankle - which was a birthday present from my son, a few years back. I remember when my son took me to have it done - there were bikies waiting there for ones they were getting done. We all got to chatting and comparing notes - and I felt silly at first - because my tattoo was so tame in comparison to some of theirs. But they encouraged me - and treated me to a drink at the pub next door after I'd had mine done.

Foxy you tart! I have been reading this thread, never worked out what was going on really. You always find bikers at tattoo parlous, no palour in Oz can run without their sponsorship.

MC Bikers in general, met some nice ones, seen them do some bad things though. Nice ones, like the afl boys, in a group... bad bad things.

Tattoos - I have one too, "This Child This Moment" written on my inner forearm... if you ever see me stop and say hello.

Dear Jewely,

I do hope that I'll spot your tattoo one day,
and I'll do more than say Hello. I'll give
you a big hug and I hope that I'll get one
in return.

The reason I mentioned my tattoo and the bikies
was - for me it was my first time in a tattoo
parlour - I was very nervous and not sure if
I was doing the right thing - but I wanted this
tattoo so badly. And my son said - "mum it's my
treat." Anyway, the bikies looked quite imposing -
and the tattoos they had chosen were so magnificent
and complicated - mine appeared so lame. But, they
were so terrific to me - none of them actually
laughed at the picture of my tattoo - they encouraged
me - and as I said - my nerves just disappeared.
It was a great evening - one I enjoyed very much.

It proved to me - never judge people by the way they
look. I couldn't have been with a nicer bunch of men.
Even my son was impressed.

Foxy, you will get a huge hug. But you are driving me nuts.

Why was the tattoo important and what is it?

The book by its cover, I don't. I am weird though, I think a gene is missing. I will chat away for ages to someone (you know in the physical world) and walk away and my daughter will say something like "he was fat" "he was really black" and I never noticed.

This doesn't always bode well, this not noticing what it is front of me. I remember only what was said. Then I wont recognise them a day later. Something wrong with me for sure.

Might be why this enviroment suits me, I can remember a style of typing.

Ach, Wunderbar,
Now we have a lot of Kafeeklatch dolts on this most august forum comparing their little tats and their little piercings.

This, all of course, is intellectual stuff, no doubt.
Why then, has not the great moderator in the sky shoved you in the corner?

If we cannot soar with the eagles; then why should we be grounded with such turkeys?

If the thread cannot progress without some timely intervention from the 'umpire' then why would anyone bother much any more?

[giggle]

Dear Non Farmer,

"Sei kein Speilverderber!" (Don't be a
spoilsport).

or put another way:

"Along a straight road you will travel
faster but you will see less."

You may prefer us to stick to the subject
of your thread - but bikies are aren't
they? At least that's what I thought.
Perhaps you could make it clearer for us
what it is that you'd like discussed.

And as Jewely pointed out - Tats and bikies
do go together.

Dear Jewely,

The tat was important to me - because it was
something I wanted to do for a very long time.
Simple as that. It's a small celtic design.
A butterfly - set in a celtic background.
Quite beautiful.

Hi Foxy, I thought we had established non-farmer was indeed so far innocent of being a crimminal because he has a motorcycle license, well I didn't but the rest of you seemed to get the message across.

He should be okay now one would think. I have been very supportive in his latest thread which come up like wild fire around him.

Tattoo: Lovley, celtic is cool and so are butterflies. I have one other, husbands signiature on my hip. What a fuss the big tough bikers kicked up about whether it was legal or not since hubby was out of the southern hemisphere at the time, I told them I just wanted the signiature not the whole damn cheque.

My daughter (someone open a thread about our children and what they are up to) has 6 tattoos, all flowers representing her name, place of birth, countries and even a fragipani for the Central Coast which the poor tattoo dude didn't want to either; only cause he hates the things.

My son has one, very cool maori design of NZ on shoulder blade.

Ton of teen boys up my way have the stars from the Oz flag on various parts of them.

"What hope is there for a bloke who used to ride the highways free - (except for the hate of the Qld police).
Perhaps it is time to brake the tendency of out State laborites of their downward dive towards 'Wowserism'.
To put the turnout into perspective - Not even the Bjelke Petersen lot stooped so low as to attack what amounts" - etc..

I've not seen any response yet to this view.
Perhaps it proves the lack of comprehension skills provided by Australian schools?

Comments please?